I really hate to do this to you Bill....but I think your "cycle buddy" Jeremy might need to shed a little 'light' on something else for you also.

We've just learned that your "oh no, they'd <u>never</u> screw <u>me</u>" cycle friends....have been telling everybody who will listen.....that they REALLY need a nice new trail in the Hiawatha Forest. (you know, the kind of trail they earlier told us they know absolutely nothing about).
Problem is Bill...that this trail has been very carefully laid out (to the powers that be) as being very narrow and of 'low impact' to the environment...you might want to call it, Bill (and I'm searching for the words here)...ANOTHER MOTORCYCLE <u>ONLY</u> ARROGANT <u>****</u> TRAIL!

Now I'm sure thatthese guys had to have given you or your fellow super-secret council member the meeting date on this one....so please pray tell us how the 'fight' actually goes on this...because by god we're all behind you whenthe time comes to expose these cocky bastards for just who... they really are!

Go get 'em, Bill (you're our hero!) [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

OK I agree my choice of words was incorerect and I appolagize for that. I was just trying making the point that the m/c trails had been there for many years before the need/want for wide trails existed. How many years have the mc trails been there? vs How many years there has been the need/want for roads in michigan? Ive been on 2 wheels for 34 years.

I havnt been there in about 39 years and I assume there is less dirt roads than when I was there. Comparing transportation needs to recreational needs is interesting.

Maybe it does, but I can understand the m/c guys not wanting to give up what they have and probubly were a big part in making too. Im just trying to give a dirt bike riders side in this discussion. I personally like to ride on trails that are 6" wide or less, the wetter the better. Rocks, roots,off camber,what ever. Most people wouldnt even want to walk there. These guys are probubly the same way and are of course being selfish. Im not saying its right or wrong, just saying I understand the mc guys side.

I have talked with a guy who works at our local post office. He moved here in the mid 80's. He was from Michigan and when he got here he quit riding dirt bikes. In the mid 80's there were far more places available to dirt bikes in ca than there are now. and 3/4 wheelers too. I guess can only imagine, fantasize maybe? How great must it have been to ride a dirt bike in michigan back then? For him to get here and quit when at that time I was absolutely jazzed about riding off road here. I suppose im jealous of what i figure he had and thats why I sympathise with their side. And I admit Id be fighting for those trails too. When I get ready to retire im going to find the state with the most m/c trails and move there.

 

BB,
Not much more to argue about except to tell you that before you go embarrassing yourself any further,you REALLY ought NOT believe everything you read before you KNOW the FACTS.

Its real funny how I personally watched you SLAM the ATVA in the past for their non postion on helmet use and now you have the nerve to come into this forum and quote some assine remark that was appearantly made in their own magazine and can BELIEVE everything that is printed by them.The MMRC is not an OFFICIAL committee to ANYBODY.YOU said it your self that nobody seems to even know much about us. Hell,we aint even a State documented association,we are'nt even a fee based membership yet, so how in the hell do YOU or anybody else give US credit for ANY amount of membership numbers?If somebody wants to write a book about us with no facts,thats their perogative.

The moral of this story?

Dont beleive everything you read.

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
BB, Not much more to argue about except to tell you that before you go embarrassing yourself any further,you REALLY ought NOT believe everything you read before you KNOW the FACTS.

First of all, I didn't "read" anything...and secondly, there isn't a damn person in this state who "reads" anything regarding current orv issues such as this...BECAUSE THIS IS ALL DONE <u>BEHIND</u> CLOSED DOORS AND IN THE SAME KIND OF "WELLLL... YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT '|' KNOW" ARROGANT **** MANNER THAT YOU YOURSELF HAVE ADOPTED ABOVE|!!!.

"...Its real funny how I personally watched you SLAM the ATVA in the past for their non postion on helmet use and now you have the nerve to come into this forum and quote some assine remark that was appearantly made in their own magazine and can BELIEVE what you read in their booklet?...."

Are you kidding me, here Bill?
Here's the link http://www.atvaonline.com/Clubs/MI_Offroad.asp

So <u>now</u> you're telling me that the only POSSIBLE way you can think of "intelligently" responding to the fact that your club kills modern maintenance bills...is to start claiming that **the ATVA** <u>makes</u> "assinine remark(s)" concerning your club...and that we all just "can't believe" WHAT YOUR CLUB TELLS THEM for their own publication?
This is the only public reference to your 2 year super-secret orv representative council that I know of..yet you've got the stones to come up here implying that this national organization... obtained all this information about these arrogant idiots and their close relationship with your club...OFF THE BATHROOM WALL???

For pete's sake, Bill...when are these guys going to take your keyboard <u>away</u>....cause you're flat out killin' em!

"..You really ought to take the time to <u>understand</u> that the MMRC is NOT an OFFICIAL committee for ANYBODY..."

LOL!!!...you're a riot, Bill !!!...how can we understand those...who won't even tell us WHO they freaking are...???

"...and we have NO clout what so ever as an influence in political matters as a group...."

THEN READ THE SAME DAMN PRESS RELEASE THAT I'VE COPIED "ABOVE"....BRAGGING ABOUT HOW THEY DID JUST THAT... ON THIS WIDENING BILL!
How stupid do you believe this forum membership to be, Bill ?

"...Hell,we aint even a documented association so how in the hell do YOU or anybody else give US credit for 22.000 members?The moral of this story?Dont beleive everything you read...."

Hey, if I have to 'beg'; I guess it's for your own good...would one of you forum newbie motorcycle boys please take the keyboard away from your red-headed step-child atver here..because I'm telling you 'once again'....he's just killin' ya without a bit of help...from anybody! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

So now your blaming OUR club and the MMRC for kicking house bill 5343 out the door?All based on your perception of what you read out of the ATVA magazine. Im not certain HOW the ATVA got the 22.000 figure from and I really dont care because it would'nt make a bit of differance to the topic anyways,since you are totally convinced that it was our club and the MMRC that got HB5343 shut down in the first place.

Hey,if WE can some how form a SECRET MMRC club that represents 22.000 users,WHY cant somebody as intelligent as you do the SAME?

 

For Pete's sake, Bill...look at the blurb concerning your atv club's "celebration" concerning the defeat of this widening bill <u>OFF</u> <u>YOUR</u> <u>OWN</u> <u>DAMN</u> <u>WEBSITE</u>.

What are you going to do now....call Jeff and tell him to take this announcemnt "off" the site....so that you don't look like an idiot; let alone somebody trying to cover up the fact that your club bragged about same.... from day one?

Gosh am I ever glad that I quit associating myself with you guys a long time ago (your stories change with the wind just as fast as your cycle buddies). [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

 

YOU are the ONLY one looking like an IDIOT because our club did'nt CELEBRATE a damn thing. We simple posted the results of the outcome,nothing more. If you choose to call it a CELEBRATION,than you are easily amused.

Fact is,there are many of us in our club that do support a wider trail so we had nothing to CELEBRATE.

 

Let's just put it this way and make it simple for you to understand.

When your club decides to found a representative organization which flat out refuses to divulge any information regarding who they are or what they are all about...then decide to publish not only the result of what said organization defeats behind closed doors...but the very REASON they supported said organization in the first place:

"...HB 5343 would have opened all 50” motorcycle and ATV ORV trail to 60”.
This would have allowed utility vehicles such as side-by-sides and the 6-wheeled Argo, to share the trail with motorcycles and ATV’s in all age groups. ***We had some very serious safety and <u>environmental</u> concerns.."***
Various ORV user groups under the umbrella of Michigan Motorized Recreation Council <u>immediately</u> began making calls to the State Representatives stating our position. At 10:56 a.m., Wednesday, October 26th, just 26 hours and 36 minutes later, we were informed, HB 5343 was “Removed from the Agenda”...."

....I have a pretty damn hard time feeling "sorry" for the fact that not a one of you has had the stones then or now to <u>act</u> <u>like</u> <u>a</u> <u>man</u> and not only publicly comment regarding this bill....but admit your <u>involvement</u> in <u>defeating</u> same.

Again, Bill....there are a lot of us out here willing to simply "agree to disagree"...yet I can't think of a one of us who is willing or able to stomach <u>these</u> kind of shenanigans....and especially by those acting like yourself when caught red-handed pulling same.

If you'd like to divert 'attention' away from this...drag Busy Rider out here to answer DB's previous questions.
Otherwise, quit playing games with the truth here and quit blaming the rest of us for your choice in supporting those with bags over their heads and secret handshakes.

 

Dick is not answering any more questions from you or any one else in here and I dont blame him a damn bit. He has FAR more intelligant ORV issues that need his direct attention.He dont need to be in here explaining anything to some simple minded blow hard who makes up BS as he goes along. He said what he had to say and you've proved NOTHING to NOBODY and never will.One can sit here and debate with you for YEARS and you'll still never be satisfied with the outcome.

Im also done with you as you have nothing but BS to spread anyways and NOBODY I know from Michigan gives a damn about what you post anyways. With that said, enjoy your time with the few out of Staters with this topic,they MIGHT be the ONLY ones you can BS in here.

I've got to meet Dick tommorrow in our super secret MMRC building,I'll be sure to tell him you miss him.

 

Muddy, you are a man I respect and admire.. and someone who is a kindred spirit when it comes to safety, and access... but I have to say that again we may be on opposite sides here on having my question answered.

Busy rider started this thread... when a question is posed that may make him uncomfortable in answering, or exposes him or the organization he is affiliated with.. and he bails, or hides behind others... Well I can't respect that. And I think it would be in his best interest to make an honest effort to dispell all the rumors and inuendo.

Again I have to say that it is obvious that nothing was done to SUPPORT the wider trail initiative... and that in itself is very telling.

I have to say that those persons who regularly frequent the trails in MI should make it clear to the DNR, and to their elected representatives that this group does NOT speak for them, and that they in fact DO support a "ONE STANDARD" for all official trails that are built or maintained using public funds.

I guess the only recourse is to bypass the advisory group and take it directly to the State. Get the keyboards warmed up folks, and sharpen the pencils... Looks like you have to pick up where someone dropped the ball...