Originally posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
"...The ORV Board usually has no big problem giving an **<u>extra</u>** minute to those that actually have something USEFUL to discuss...."

Uhhhh (again) "Bill"....these people have cut me off mid-sentance in the past and <u>well</u> **before** my alloted speaking time was even over....
Tell me, has 2-Trakkr been coaching you as to how one simply ignores stated facts while turning present subject matter 180 degrees around?
By gosh, good job Muddy!; you're a quick learner! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

"....we are under <u>NO</u> obligation to speak word one...about ANYTHING that went on in last Wednesdays ORV meeting...."

Do I have to change my signature below....or simply 'add' to it?
(by the way, who's "we" here....all the other people on this forum and at that meeting....reading this right now...yet with an apparent inability to 'understand' what they witnessed any more than you two? (or perhaps bound by some inexplicable secret oath of public divulgement on matters relating to public announcements/meetings?).

You guys are a hoot! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

2-TRAKER ignoring stated facts? You've got to be KIDDING me! Here we have 40 some pages of nothing but BS [your the ONLY one calling them FACTS] from you and you have the nerve to accuse Jeramey of ignoring facts. Just like Dick, I think Jeramey and MANY others in this forum dont want to waste their time with you anymore.BTW, there is NOBODY better at turning the subject matter around 180% than YOU!



READ IT AGAIN--Given the fact that 99.9% of Michigan ORV users would like to see our sport actually move FORWRD instead of BACKWARDS,we are under NO obligation to speak word one to such a critic as you BB about ANYTHING that went on in last Wednesdays ORV meeting.

 

There is something new about 200 miles new trail for next 4 years, what happened to the 25% more on ground by 2008? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

How many miles of trails will be closed for forest certifications each year?

What will this new 200 miles per year be? My guess is single track trail for the "me-only trail" crowd [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

So if you all that want atv and orv miles of trail do not start making noise about what trails you do want to the DNR and your state rep's, my guess is you will not like what you end up with. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Now my 2cents about these guys who will attack this post and start the personal attacks against me for posting this; These guys want the "me-only trails" they do not want to share, reread their posts and think about the reasons they say a 55" or 60" trail is not a good idea. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Happy Mothers Day,

Motorsports [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

Motorsports,

Asking very simple questions of these guys involving the placement of this massive mileage or even their public positions concerning same (especially in your Michigan orv advisory board/MMRC chairman's <u>very</u> <u>own</u> <u>thread</u>)....certainly causes the 'crickets to chirp'....doesn't it? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img] (not to worry, I'm certain that 'everybody' will be forthcoming AFTER the decision is made and this huge disposition of trail mileage is over with.....).

 

BBalled, I have to agree with Muddy on the trainer $. Of all the classes I was invlolved with, I can honestly say I didn't make any money at it, and in many cases, lost money with no-shows etc. I pulled my own machines, even pulled a few spare minis so kids could take the class on a proper sized machine. (When a 7 year old shows up on a blaster, even after mom and dad swear they had a 50 for them to ride when they signed up.) I was lucky, the land owner generously donated the use of their land, and provided some equipment for maintenence.. but many hours were spent preparing for class. All for zero pay.

So I'd have to say, we didn't do it for the $... I doubt anyone who teaches does it for $. At least in my case, I did it for the sheer joy of watching a kid's smile after they overcome their fear of the unknown... Also, I wanted to fill a void in Northern VA, where at the time, there was one guy that did 2 classes a year in the local area. Considering that there are thousands of machines sold in the area each year, 16 people is just scratching the surface. If I hadn't broken my leg/ankle in a fall on the ice last winter, I'd be out there every weekend. Unfortunately, the leg is taking longer than expected. And becasue of my age, it looks like I may never get back on a quad again... at least not for about another year. I am barely walking after 6 months...

As for where the other money went... you have to ask the ASI. I suspect a few dollars goes to pay salaries and lobbyists in Washington that are fighting tooth and nail for our rights to ride... They also pay for insurance etc...

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: Dragginbutt
"..So I'd have to say, we didn't do it for the $... I doubt anyone who teaches does it for $...."

I guess my opinion is that if you don't have any other job and you're charging parents to sit in on their own kid's classes or collecting $60 to "administer" some class you're getting somebody else to teach for $40 (while I sit back and subsidize the entire hundy!!!)...you indeed are "in it for the money!" [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] (good, bad or indifferent may be it your intentions).

When the $1 taken out of my sticker fee for training is tripled to $3 with absolutely no guarantee that this percentage won't carry on to the point where stickers are one hell of a lot more expensive than the $16 they are now...I think I'm justified in saying that not only should training be subsidized on an "as needed" income basis....but damn well that any parent or trainer shouldn't be allowed to dip into the system twice for both written and then again hands-on training.(this again being one of the questions Muddy didn't care to answer)

I've helped train kids also, DB (not obviously matching your efforts) and at a reasonable price OUTSIDE of the subsdidized system. Let these trainers charge what they want on their own....just don't ask me to sacrifice restoration and maintenance dollars/issues for the sake of making sure Mom and Dad in the Escalade have more 'Dom Perignon' on hand come New Years.

You have to understand DB, that these bozos have worked for years on tripling these training subsdidies after effectively driving the old program right into the ground and many of the original instructors out of the program. Do you see these people hollering about the need for 'increasing' funds to field modernized proper width equipment to maintain the largest trail system in the country? How about even ANY increase to fund the maintenance on all this massive new mileage they've effectively shoved down our throats and taken behind closed doors?

It is about money, DB....and I'll be damn if <u>every</u> time you witness folks acting like this....<u>you</u> <u>can</u> <u>bet</u> <u>your</u> <u>bottom</u> <u>dollar</u> <u>on</u> <u>it</u>.

 

I don't have a clue what he is talking about here, the ORV Sticker is not tripleing in price any time soon. I can only assume he is again getting his exercise by jumping to conclusions.

Private trainers should be able to charge what they want I agree. Currently they are restricted by law to charge $25.00 for a class and if they offer a hands-on portion they can charge another $10.00. The private trainers are not allowed to get subsidy for training, only Law Enforcment and DNR trainers can get subsidy and still charge the $25.00 per student.

Another jump... The way the sticker money is divided up is mandated as to how it is spent. We went through this before in this thread. Education money is seperate from Restoration or Maintenace funds.

 

Once again, our resident forum jerk spouts off at the mouth and knows nothing about what he speaks of in regards to safety training.

HE talks about running the old program into the ground [which is an all out 100% fabricated LIE] while saying not one word about the improperly and often fully untrained 300 officers that are charging 30 bucks for a 2 HR ORV Safety class AND receiving another 20 bucks for the SAME student from the ORV safety fund while teaching NOTHING at all in their classes that the same students could'nt find out of their owners manaul. These instructors are not only incompetent and unprofessional, but they do not posses the quaifications god gave to a turtle to instruct these classes,and the DNR know this too. Alls they give a damn about is that they can lay claim to instructing 1000s of students in a years time with no regard to the fact that these kids and their parents are learning NOTHING in the class.Their ONLY care is HOW MANY.

Now these are the SAME officers that dont hesitate to issue you a citation for going off the trail a foot or abusing the enviro and yet, dont instruct one word about PREVENTION of the same.

Dont give me this BS about waste BB, cause I'll shove it right down your throat!

 

blackballed,

The "me-only trail" crowd are keeping the decisions/positions over this huge "new" trail mileage top secret.
So the atv/orv users need to write/call the DNR and tell them what they want this new trail to look like. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

I guess I should feel lucky I was not called names yet, like BB was on this page... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]




Motorsports [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

MOTORSPORTS,
The last thing I want to do is be disrespectful to anyone,much less a fellow ORV rider,but this BB has deserved every bit of what anyone calls him.

The reason I dont answer your questions in here is because no matter HOW I answer your questions, BB will have some untrue and unfounded assine remark about it,as ALL his past posts do, and im not really in the mood to be dealing with his BS anymore.

If you would go to the ATVOFFROAD.NET forum and seek out your questions in there, im sure that your questions would be answered. It pleases me a great deal that BB cannot see anything that is posted in there and cannot respond either.

As with most forums he was a member of, he use to that!