What is really going on in Michigan
May 6, 2006 | 07:06 PM
#811
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,572
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What is really going on in Michigan
BB QUOTE*
Now I will be the first to admit that I've never seen Muddy charge these parents a dime...yet the problem always was (similiar to when trainers were sub-contracting classes at $40 per student and keeping $60 for "administration fees")...I just couldn't get him to simply come out and ADMIT that there was anything actually morally WRONG with the act itself ----------------------------END OF BB QUOTE*
What in gods name makes YOU an authority on HOW much money ANY private enterprize safety association should be able to charge to take a safety class?The LAW tells us that a PRIVATE ENTERPRIZE may LEGISLATIVELY charge a course fee not higher than the costs associated of doing the class,and these fee's may include ANYTHING associated with doing this class,right down to the costs of Kleenex for a student to wipe his snotty nose.BB has NO IDEA what the costs are associated with performing a safety class, he therefore ought to mind his OWN bussiness and not tell private safety instructors that they charge to much. Last time I checked, I did'nt see anyone telling him that he makes to much money doing his job, he ought to pass on the same courtousy.
You are damn right, I am not going to admit that there is ANYTHING wrong with the costs that RR or ANY other private enterprize charged to take their safety course as long as its within the guidelines of the costs associated with doing the said class. And if a private enterprize feels its ok to charge a parent to sit in on their safety class, than thats how THEY choose to run their bussiness and I have no legitimate opinion about it what so ever.
Under Michigan law, a youth may operate an ORV at ANY age,as long as they are ORV certified and under the direct visual supervision of an adult while operating when they are under the age of 16 years old. Just EXACTLY how in the hell does a safety instructor train and certifiy 5 yr old Joey who wants to ride his dirt bike with his daddy and this same kid cant even read the test sheet? Simple, you force a parent to sit in on the class and the instructor actually winds up training the youth AND the parent of the youth with regards to the safe/responsable use of the ORV. When the parent leaves this class, THEY take what they learned in this safety class and it helps to ensure that they continually take their education and pass this instruction on to little Joey thru his childhood riding years.If an instructor wants to charge the parent, so be it. The parent is taking up ANOTHER CLASS SEAT and I have no problem with an instructor charging for it [I dont thru my organization]...
What REALLY SMOKES my **** is what the DNR did to our Grant funds that was set aside for safety instructors to make safety training more affordable to many of those that needed it. They took ALL these funds AWAY from those instructors that were PROPERLY certified to instruct a safety class, and GAVE IT AWAY to LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES that have little/no training what so ever to even administer a safety class in the first place.So now what you have is IN-EPT cops teaching your kids NOTHING at a rate of 25 bucks per student AND also receiving ANOTHER 20 bucks [for the SAME kid] from the ORV SAFETY grant fund per student. This totals 45 bucks per student trained and your kids are learning NOTHING in these classes. These cops do not have the proper training to do these classes and should NOT be allowed to be able to perform them. Now this has FORCED out alot of very good private enterprise safety courses right out of business because the instructors that were doing these classes the right way WITH hands-on training, cannot compete with the prices these cops charge and receive to complete one of their Cracker Jack classes.
I sat thru a safety course about 6 weeks ago that was administered by the DNR and it was POTHETIC @ BEST! When the course was over, myself and another properly certified instructor that took the class with me, told the DNR officer who we were and what we felt about his teachings, and BELIEVE me when I tell you it was NOT good. He totally agreed with us but said that this is what the DNR are allowing them to get away with so the classes go on even today. Talk about WASTE of ORV safety funds? The guys that are doing these classes the RIGHT WAY, cant get their fingers on ONE CENT of this money since the DNR was given the responsablitly for administration of these classes. Now I hear that these cops are putting 50 kids at a time in a classroom, receiving 20 bucks from the ORV safety fund per student, all the time charging ther parents another 25 bucks per SAME student for a 2-3 hr class.
Now I will be the first to admit that I've never seen Muddy charge these parents a dime...yet the problem always was (similiar to when trainers were sub-contracting classes at $40 per student and keeping $60 for "administration fees")...I just couldn't get him to simply come out and ADMIT that there was anything actually morally WRONG with the act itself ----------------------------END OF BB QUOTE*
What in gods name makes YOU an authority on HOW much money ANY private enterprize safety association should be able to charge to take a safety class?The LAW tells us that a PRIVATE ENTERPRIZE may LEGISLATIVELY charge a course fee not higher than the costs associated of doing the class,and these fee's may include ANYTHING associated with doing this class,right down to the costs of Kleenex for a student to wipe his snotty nose.BB has NO IDEA what the costs are associated with performing a safety class, he therefore ought to mind his OWN bussiness and not tell private safety instructors that they charge to much. Last time I checked, I did'nt see anyone telling him that he makes to much money doing his job, he ought to pass on the same courtousy.
You are damn right, I am not going to admit that there is ANYTHING wrong with the costs that RR or ANY other private enterprize charged to take their safety course as long as its within the guidelines of the costs associated with doing the said class. And if a private enterprize feels its ok to charge a parent to sit in on their safety class, than thats how THEY choose to run their bussiness and I have no legitimate opinion about it what so ever.
Under Michigan law, a youth may operate an ORV at ANY age,as long as they are ORV certified and under the direct visual supervision of an adult while operating when they are under the age of 16 years old. Just EXACTLY how in the hell does a safety instructor train and certifiy 5 yr old Joey who wants to ride his dirt bike with his daddy and this same kid cant even read the test sheet? Simple, you force a parent to sit in on the class and the instructor actually winds up training the youth AND the parent of the youth with regards to the safe/responsable use of the ORV. When the parent leaves this class, THEY take what they learned in this safety class and it helps to ensure that they continually take their education and pass this instruction on to little Joey thru his childhood riding years.If an instructor wants to charge the parent, so be it. The parent is taking up ANOTHER CLASS SEAT and I have no problem with an instructor charging for it [I dont thru my organization]...
What REALLY SMOKES my **** is what the DNR did to our Grant funds that was set aside for safety instructors to make safety training more affordable to many of those that needed it. They took ALL these funds AWAY from those instructors that were PROPERLY certified to instruct a safety class, and GAVE IT AWAY to LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES that have little/no training what so ever to even administer a safety class in the first place.So now what you have is IN-EPT cops teaching your kids NOTHING at a rate of 25 bucks per student AND also receiving ANOTHER 20 bucks [for the SAME kid] from the ORV SAFETY grant fund per student. This totals 45 bucks per student trained and your kids are learning NOTHING in these classes. These cops do not have the proper training to do these classes and should NOT be allowed to be able to perform them. Now this has FORCED out alot of very good private enterprise safety courses right out of business because the instructors that were doing these classes the right way WITH hands-on training, cannot compete with the prices these cops charge and receive to complete one of their Cracker Jack classes.
I sat thru a safety course about 6 weeks ago that was administered by the DNR and it was POTHETIC @ BEST! When the course was over, myself and another properly certified instructor that took the class with me, told the DNR officer who we were and what we felt about his teachings, and BELIEVE me when I tell you it was NOT good. He totally agreed with us but said that this is what the DNR are allowing them to get away with so the classes go on even today. Talk about WASTE of ORV safety funds? The guys that are doing these classes the RIGHT WAY, cant get their fingers on ONE CENT of this money since the DNR was given the responsablitly for administration of these classes. Now I hear that these cops are putting 50 kids at a time in a classroom, receiving 20 bucks from the ORV safety fund per student, all the time charging ther parents another 25 bucks per SAME student for a 2-3 hr class.
May 6, 2006 | 11:46 PM
#812
Pro Rider
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
What is really going on in Michigan
[quote]
Originally posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
"...BB has NO IDEA what the costs are associated with performing a safety class...'
First off, Muddy...we have both ran safety classes together in the past that were financed both out of my own pocket (no write-offs; no reimbursements from the state) and through your generosity as well. It was the first of its kind here in southwest Michigan and we both made it happen in spite of the grief we went through initially.
I'm as proud as you are of that; yet please don't insist that this is my first 'rodeo' in terms of what it takes to put on a simple training class.
"...he therefore ought to mind his OWN bussiness and not tell private safety instructors that they charge to much...."
When instructors were raking in $60 per student to 'administer' ( simply do the paper work) for classes they didn't even teach themselves (using sticker fund money)...uhhhh "yeah Bill"...these guys were making <U>too</U> <U>damn</U> <U>much</U> money!!! (LOL)[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]. I've had several conversations with national leaders in both the orv/safety arenas and every <u>one</u> of them said the same darn thing.(frankly, they couldn't believe it either and I was told that they even tried to talk some sense in to your group at one point in time).
"....You are damn right, I am not going to admit that there is ANYTHING wrong with the costs that RR or ANY other private enterprize charged to take their safety course as long as its within the guidelines of the costs associated with doing the said class. And if a private enterprize feels its ok to charge a parent to sit in on their safety class, than thats how THEY choose to run their bussiness and I have no legitimate opinion about it what so ever....."
You pretty much just drove home all my points earlier (and above) with that one, Muddy....how does one "argue" with that kind of big city Detroit suburbanite logic...and aren't we thankful that every member of this recent orv safety task force felt the same way?
"....If an instructor wants to charge the parent, so be it. The parent is taking up ANOTHER CLASS SEAT and I have no problem with an instructor charging for it..."
"wow".....[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
"...Now I hear that these cops are putting 50 kids at a time in a classroom, receiving 20 bucks from the ORV safety fund per student, all the time charging ther parents another 25 bucks per SAME student for a 2-3 hr class...."
Wait a minute....aren't these law enforcement officers still making $15 <u>less</u> per student (and actually teaching the class) than the instructor earlier making $60 per student for not even showing up? And the next question seemingly begged here would be...why are YOU hollering about the sherrif department NOW and not the people who got us into this mess in the first place?
Do you somehow think that the DNR finally had to take over this mess because they wanted to?
Originally posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
"...BB has NO IDEA what the costs are associated with performing a safety class...'
First off, Muddy...we have both ran safety classes together in the past that were financed both out of my own pocket (no write-offs; no reimbursements from the state) and through your generosity as well. It was the first of its kind here in southwest Michigan and we both made it happen in spite of the grief we went through initially.
I'm as proud as you are of that; yet please don't insist that this is my first 'rodeo' in terms of what it takes to put on a simple training class.
"...he therefore ought to mind his OWN bussiness and not tell private safety instructors that they charge to much...."
When instructors were raking in $60 per student to 'administer' ( simply do the paper work) for classes they didn't even teach themselves (using sticker fund money)...uhhhh "yeah Bill"...these guys were making <U>too</U> <U>damn</U> <U>much</U> money!!! (LOL)[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]. I've had several conversations with national leaders in both the orv/safety arenas and every <u>one</u> of them said the same darn thing.(frankly, they couldn't believe it either and I was told that they even tried to talk some sense in to your group at one point in time).
"....You are damn right, I am not going to admit that there is ANYTHING wrong with the costs that RR or ANY other private enterprize charged to take their safety course as long as its within the guidelines of the costs associated with doing the said class. And if a private enterprize feels its ok to charge a parent to sit in on their safety class, than thats how THEY choose to run their bussiness and I have no legitimate opinion about it what so ever....."
You pretty much just drove home all my points earlier (and above) with that one, Muddy....how does one "argue" with that kind of big city Detroit suburbanite logic...and aren't we thankful that every member of this recent orv safety task force felt the same way?
"....If an instructor wants to charge the parent, so be it. The parent is taking up ANOTHER CLASS SEAT and I have no problem with an instructor charging for it..."
"wow".....[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
"...Now I hear that these cops are putting 50 kids at a time in a classroom, receiving 20 bucks from the ORV safety fund per student, all the time charging ther parents another 25 bucks per SAME student for a 2-3 hr class...."
Wait a minute....aren't these law enforcement officers still making $15 <u>less</u> per student (and actually teaching the class) than the instructor earlier making $60 per student for not even showing up? And the next question seemingly begged here would be...why are YOU hollering about the sherrif department NOW and not the people who got us into this mess in the first place?
Do you somehow think that the DNR finally had to take over this mess because they wanted to?
May 7, 2006 | 08:41 AM
#813
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,572
Likes: 0
What is really going on in Michigan
When instructors were raking in $60 per student to 'administer' ( simply do the paper work) for classes they didn't even teach themselves (using sticker fund money)...uhhhh "yeah Bill"...these guys were making too damn much money!!! ---END OF QUOTE*
I dont beleive that ANYBODY from the NATIONALLY organized safety association told you anything about the costs of doing class because the ATV Safety Institute charges a fee of 125 bucks per student [over 15yrs old]and the Instructor only see's 35 bucks of the 125 dollar fee per student.That means that 90 bucks of this 125 dollar student fee would go directly to the ASI for OTHER administrative costs.And for the record,you are WAY OFF when you claim that 'adminstrative costs is simply doing PAPERWORK'. We have track assistants to pay, secretarys to pay, the track does not GRADE ITSELF so we have to buy track gravel by the load and have the track graded quite often, the grass dont cut itself either and the snow does not remove itself either.There are FAR more COSTS directly related to doing a safety class than a person with your IQ could ever begin to imagine.They [ASI] would be sticking their foot directly in their own mouths if they even attemted to tell ANYONE in Michigan that a 100 student fee was too much money.I dont beleive you for a second.
BB QUOTE*
Wait a minute....aren't these law enforcement officers still making $15 less per student (and actually teaching the class) than the instructor earlier making $60 per student for not even showing up? And the next question seemingly begged here would be...why are YOU hollering about the sherrif department NOW and not the people who got us into this mess in the first place?Do you somehow think that the DNR finally had to take over this mess because they wanted to.END OF QUOTE*
Again, I dont expect someone with your IQ to understand the logics of the COSTS associated with doing a safety class. When I did safety classes for RR organization, I was paid a flat rate of 40 bucks per student and the rest of the 60 bucks went directly to RR and his safety organization. What he did with the rest of the money is his bussiness. As long as it was spent on the other costs associated with performing a safety class, than he can LEGALLY do what he wants with the extra 60 bucks. I suspect he paid a secretary, office phone bills, postage, class materials, track grading,ATV repairs, grass cutting,snow removal and OTHER associated costs related to the class.I left his safety organization for personal indifferances between him and I and to start my OWN organization, and its been the best thing that could have happened.
Now as far as the OTHER LEOs and the classes they teach and the money they make? I've personally been to TWO of these safety classes myself and they are a DISGRACE to every man/women instructor in the State of Michigan who took the proper steps to become a PROPERLY certified instructor in the first place.WHAT part of this quote DONT you understand?
Bills QUOTE*What REALLY SMOKES my **** is what the DNR did to our Grant funds that was set aside for safety instructors to make safety training more affordable to many of those that needed it. They took ALL these funds AWAY from those instructors that were PROPERLY certified to instruct a safety class, and GAVE IT AWAY to LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES that have little/no training what so ever to even administer a safety class in the first place.So now what you have is IN-EPT cops teaching your kids NOTHING at a rate of 25 bucks per student AND also receiving ANOTHER 20 bucks [for the SAME kid] from the ORV SAFETY grant fund per student. This totals 45 bucks per student trained and your kids are learning NOTHING in these classes. These cops do not have the proper training to do these classes and should NOT be allowed to be able to perform them. Now this has FORCED out alot of very good private enterprise safety courses right out of business because the instructors that were doing these classes the right way WITH hands-on training, cannot compete with the prices these cops charge and receive to complete one of their Cracker Jack classes.
I sat thru a safety course about 6 weeks ago that was administered by the DNR and it was POTHETIC @ BEST! When the course was over, myself and another properly certified instructor that took the class with me, told the DNR officer who we were and what we felt about his teachings, and BELIEVE me when I tell you it was NOT good. He totally agreed with us but said that this is what the DNR are allowing them to get away with so the classes go on even today. Talk about WASTE of ORV safety funds? The guys that are doing these classes the RIGHT WAY, cant get their fingers on ONE CENT of this money since the DNR was given the responsablitly for administration of these classes. Now I hear that these cops are putting 50 kids at a time in a classroom, receiving 20 bucks from the ORV safety fund per student, all the time charging ther parents another 25 bucks per SAME student for a 2-3 hr class.END OF Bills QUOTE*
BB QUOTE*
Do you somehow think that the DNR finally had to take over this mess because they wanted to?END OF QUOTE*
The DNR took these classes over BECAUSE of an EXCUTIVE ORDER by the GOVERNOR of Michigan. I know YOU probably want to take credit for this change,but there would be no truth to that.
I dont beleive that ANYBODY from the NATIONALLY organized safety association told you anything about the costs of doing class because the ATV Safety Institute charges a fee of 125 bucks per student [over 15yrs old]and the Instructor only see's 35 bucks of the 125 dollar fee per student.That means that 90 bucks of this 125 dollar student fee would go directly to the ASI for OTHER administrative costs.And for the record,you are WAY OFF when you claim that 'adminstrative costs is simply doing PAPERWORK'. We have track assistants to pay, secretarys to pay, the track does not GRADE ITSELF so we have to buy track gravel by the load and have the track graded quite often, the grass dont cut itself either and the snow does not remove itself either.There are FAR more COSTS directly related to doing a safety class than a person with your IQ could ever begin to imagine.They [ASI] would be sticking their foot directly in their own mouths if they even attemted to tell ANYONE in Michigan that a 100 student fee was too much money.I dont beleive you for a second.
BB QUOTE*
Wait a minute....aren't these law enforcement officers still making $15 less per student (and actually teaching the class) than the instructor earlier making $60 per student for not even showing up? And the next question seemingly begged here would be...why are YOU hollering about the sherrif department NOW and not the people who got us into this mess in the first place?Do you somehow think that the DNR finally had to take over this mess because they wanted to.END OF QUOTE*
Again, I dont expect someone with your IQ to understand the logics of the COSTS associated with doing a safety class. When I did safety classes for RR organization, I was paid a flat rate of 40 bucks per student and the rest of the 60 bucks went directly to RR and his safety organization. What he did with the rest of the money is his bussiness. As long as it was spent on the other costs associated with performing a safety class, than he can LEGALLY do what he wants with the extra 60 bucks. I suspect he paid a secretary, office phone bills, postage, class materials, track grading,ATV repairs, grass cutting,snow removal and OTHER associated costs related to the class.I left his safety organization for personal indifferances between him and I and to start my OWN organization, and its been the best thing that could have happened.
Now as far as the OTHER LEOs and the classes they teach and the money they make? I've personally been to TWO of these safety classes myself and they are a DISGRACE to every man/women instructor in the State of Michigan who took the proper steps to become a PROPERLY certified instructor in the first place.WHAT part of this quote DONT you understand?
Bills QUOTE*What REALLY SMOKES my **** is what the DNR did to our Grant funds that was set aside for safety instructors to make safety training more affordable to many of those that needed it. They took ALL these funds AWAY from those instructors that were PROPERLY certified to instruct a safety class, and GAVE IT AWAY to LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES that have little/no training what so ever to even administer a safety class in the first place.So now what you have is IN-EPT cops teaching your kids NOTHING at a rate of 25 bucks per student AND also receiving ANOTHER 20 bucks [for the SAME kid] from the ORV SAFETY grant fund per student. This totals 45 bucks per student trained and your kids are learning NOTHING in these classes. These cops do not have the proper training to do these classes and should NOT be allowed to be able to perform them. Now this has FORCED out alot of very good private enterprise safety courses right out of business because the instructors that were doing these classes the right way WITH hands-on training, cannot compete with the prices these cops charge and receive to complete one of their Cracker Jack classes.
I sat thru a safety course about 6 weeks ago that was administered by the DNR and it was POTHETIC @ BEST! When the course was over, myself and another properly certified instructor that took the class with me, told the DNR officer who we were and what we felt about his teachings, and BELIEVE me when I tell you it was NOT good. He totally agreed with us but said that this is what the DNR are allowing them to get away with so the classes go on even today. Talk about WASTE of ORV safety funds? The guys that are doing these classes the RIGHT WAY, cant get their fingers on ONE CENT of this money since the DNR was given the responsablitly for administration of these classes. Now I hear that these cops are putting 50 kids at a time in a classroom, receiving 20 bucks from the ORV safety fund per student, all the time charging ther parents another 25 bucks per SAME student for a 2-3 hr class.END OF Bills QUOTE*
BB QUOTE*
Do you somehow think that the DNR finally had to take over this mess because they wanted to?END OF QUOTE*
The DNR took these classes over BECAUSE of an EXCUTIVE ORDER by the GOVERNOR of Michigan. I know YOU probably want to take credit for this change,but there would be no truth to that.
May 8, 2006 | 09:06 AM
#814
Pro Rider
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
What is really going on in Michigan
[quote]
Originally posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
"...When I did safety classes for RR organization, I was paid a flat rate of 40 bucks per student and the rest of the <u>60</u> <u>bucks</u> went directly to RR and his safety organization. What he did with the rest of the money is his bussiness....I left his safety organization for personal indifferances between him and I and to start my OWN organization...."
Uhhhh, "Muddy".....not only should the bold faced words above read **100 dollars**...but I think we're all starting to see just why you made 'the move' in the first place (being in wholesale agreement with all of it).
Hey, if I could have made $60 a crack out of the orv fund for having someone else perform my work....and the Michigan orv safety task force charged with 'cleaning up' this kind of abuse chooses to not say a word about this nonsense or charging parents to sit in on ther kid's classes...why didn't I sign up? (especially with the money out of each sticker sold about to be tripled and a safety task force evidently willing to see, hear or speak no evil if it means questioning the guy sitting right across the darn <u>table</u> from him?).
Sorry, my friend....you may be able to convince the rest of this board as to the "necessary" transgressions these trainers have taken over time absent anybody like myself with the guts to simply 'dare' question any of it...yet there are folks out here who live a little different outside the glare of those big city suburban lights. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
P.S. Does anybody on this board still wonder why these guys are the only orv enthusiasts in this country meeting in secret/anonymously or seemingly having huge problems with posting their contact info like everybody else in national or local orv leadership?
Originally posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
"...When I did safety classes for RR organization, I was paid a flat rate of 40 bucks per student and the rest of the <u>60</u> <u>bucks</u> went directly to RR and his safety organization. What he did with the rest of the money is his bussiness....I left his safety organization for personal indifferances between him and I and to start my OWN organization...."
Uhhhh, "Muddy".....not only should the bold faced words above read **100 dollars**...but I think we're all starting to see just why you made 'the move' in the first place (being in wholesale agreement with all of it).
Hey, if I could have made $60 a crack out of the orv fund for having someone else perform my work....and the Michigan orv safety task force charged with 'cleaning up' this kind of abuse chooses to not say a word about this nonsense or charging parents to sit in on ther kid's classes...why didn't I sign up? (especially with the money out of each sticker sold about to be tripled and a safety task force evidently willing to see, hear or speak no evil if it means questioning the guy sitting right across the darn <u>table</u> from him?).
Sorry, my friend....you may be able to convince the rest of this board as to the "necessary" transgressions these trainers have taken over time absent anybody like myself with the guts to simply 'dare' question any of it...yet there are folks out here who live a little different outside the glare of those big city suburban lights. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
P.S. Does anybody on this board still wonder why these guys are the only orv enthusiasts in this country meeting in secret/anonymously or seemingly having huge problems with posting their contact info like everybody else in national or local orv leadership?
May 8, 2006 | 10:47 AM
#815
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,572
Likes: 0
What is really going on in Michigan
Your SICK and you need a doctor bad. NOBODY took 60 bucks out of any ORV safety fund and just sat back with these funds. You are SO FULL of BS that its just pouring out of your PC with every word you type,and most everyone in here can see right thru you.
I dont even know WHY I bother responding to your BS anymore, your a sick puppy BB with NOTHING proven to anybody about your allegations. Your a sick one,get help!S.
QUOTE*Does anybody on this board still wonder why these guys are the only orv enthusiasts in this country meeting in secret/anonymously or seemingly having huge problems with posting their contact info like everybody else in national or local orv leadership.END OF QUOTE*
And you make no sense with this last statement. WE GUYS are made up of differant user groups that use all differant types of ORVs in what YOU refer to ORV secret meetings.And we relay our information back to the members of our clubs. Was'nt it YOU that claimed that no local ORV club meets ANY of YOUR agenda's in the first place?Than why would YOU give a rip what ANY of these leaders have to say for?
I dont even know WHY I bother responding to your BS anymore, your a sick puppy BB with NOTHING proven to anybody about your allegations. Your a sick one,get help!S.
QUOTE*Does anybody on this board still wonder why these guys are the only orv enthusiasts in this country meeting in secret/anonymously or seemingly having huge problems with posting their contact info like everybody else in national or local orv leadership.END OF QUOTE*
And you make no sense with this last statement. WE GUYS are made up of differant user groups that use all differant types of ORVs in what YOU refer to ORV secret meetings.And we relay our information back to the members of our clubs. Was'nt it YOU that claimed that no local ORV club meets ANY of YOUR agenda's in the first place?Than why would YOU give a rip what ANY of these leaders have to say for?
May 12, 2006 | 11:39 PM
#816
Pro Rider
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
What is really going on in Michigan
So what was the 'first ever' big announcement by "Michigan's only orv voice" at this week's Michigan orv advisory board meeting?
How were the 750 miles broken down by multi-user v.s. "me-only" trails?
Where were they suggested?
Were <u>all</u> the MMRC council members finally forced to simply stand up like a man at the meeting and reveal exactly who they were and HOW they could be contacted? (we can only 'hope' that the deserved shame heaped on these people in this very forum caused this in the very least....). [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
How were the 750 miles broken down by multi-user v.s. "me-only" trails?
Where were they suggested?
Were <u>all</u> the MMRC council members finally forced to simply stand up like a man at the meeting and reveal exactly who they were and HOW they could be contacted? (we can only 'hope' that the deserved shame heaped on these people in this very forum caused this in the very least....). [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
May 13, 2006 | 10:02 AM
#817
Trailblazer
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
What is really going on in Michigan
Originally posted by: blackballed
So what was the 'first ever' big announcement by "Michigan's only orv voice"at this week's Michigan orv advisory board meeting?
How were the 750 miles broken down by multi-user v.s. "me-only" trails?
Where were they suggested|?
Were all the MMRC council members finally forced to simply stand up like a man at the meeting and reveal exactly who they were and HOW they could be contacted? (we can only 'hope' that the deserved shame heaped on these people in this very forum caused this in the very least....). [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
So what was the 'first ever' big announcement by "Michigan's only orv voice"at this week's Michigan orv advisory board meeting?
How were the 750 miles broken down by multi-user v.s. "me-only" trails?
Where were they suggested|?
Were all the MMRC council members finally forced to simply stand up like a man at the meeting and reveal exactly who they were and HOW they could be contacted? (we can only 'hope' that the deserved shame heaped on these people in this very forum caused this in the very least....). [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
So what your saying is you didn't attend the meeting and you have no clue as to what is going on? This must be a first for the all knowing all seeing mighty Blackballed.
From what I saw presented it's all 24inch trail in the U.P. and the Advisory Board passed a motion to support it.
Then again I may be wrong and you will just have to wait until the Advisory Board Minutes get posted on the web to find out.
May 13, 2006 | 09:45 PM
#818
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,572
Likes: 0
What is really going on in Michigan
ALL the new 725 miles are going to go to them greedy 24 inch red headed step child cyclists [is that how BB calls it?]
And another 4000 miles of lightly groomed, east/west single track will be installed in the U.P by Janurary of 2007.
After that is acchomplished, in 2008, the greedy red headed step child cyclists [is that how BB calls it?] will gain another 4000 miles of north/south trails in the U.P of Michigan, all to be completed by mid July of 2008.
In August of 2008, the red headed step child cyclists [is that how BB calls it?] will gain another 25000 miles of lighty groomed 24 inch trail in the LP of Michigan, ALL from the ORV trail fund.
The ATVers will be allowed to groom ALL their exsisting 50 inch trails with the modern equipment that BB speaks of and widen them to 51 inches,all to be completed by Janurary of 2050.
What a bargin if you ask me!
And another 4000 miles of lightly groomed, east/west single track will be installed in the U.P by Janurary of 2007.
After that is acchomplished, in 2008, the greedy red headed step child cyclists [is that how BB calls it?] will gain another 4000 miles of north/south trails in the U.P of Michigan, all to be completed by mid July of 2008.
In August of 2008, the red headed step child cyclists [is that how BB calls it?] will gain another 25000 miles of lighty groomed 24 inch trail in the LP of Michigan, ALL from the ORV trail fund.
The ATVers will be allowed to groom ALL their exsisting 50 inch trails with the modern equipment that BB speaks of and widen them to 51 inches,all to be completed by Janurary of 2050.
What a bargin if you ask me!
May 14, 2006 | 12:26 AM
#819
Pro Rider
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
What is really going on in Michigan
Originally posted by: Theotherguy
"...So what your saying is you didn't attend the meeting and you have no clue as to what is going on? This must be a first for the all knowing all seeing mighty Blackballed.....
....From what "I" saw presented it's all 24inch trail in the U.P. and the Advisory Board passed a motion to support it.
Then again..."I" may be wrong and you will just have to <u>wait</u>...to find out.[/quote]
You know, before I quit travelling to these meetings after being denied the rightful opportunity to speak at same by the very author of this thread and the DNR in unison,,,I somehow comprehended <u>every</u> <u>word</u> <u>spoken</u> in those rooms and even took the time to quickly comment on what was newly brought forward in that short time frame when considering the 3 months between my opportunity to do so.
Please forgive me for sounding a bit condescending here, TOG...yet what with Muddy blurting out whatever numbers or time frame fantasies he's fixated on at the moment...and considering <u>your</u> apparent inabilty to give any kind of accurate recap of the night's events...are you two guys just both 'unsure' of what you actuallywitnessed that night...or is this simple information concerning what "22,000 or more" Michigan atvers publicly announced/desired for the very <u>first</u> time in the history of Michigan motorized recreation....all one big secret once again?
I understood why guys like Dick and Steve dearly hated to give me those extra 3 minutes that individuals such as Bill C. would receive without even asking (the two of them even joked about the proper procedure regarding this years ago)....yet what really amazed me during the public commentary at the end of these meetings....was how few were able to even incorporate anything <u>that</u> <u>was</u> <u>just</u> <u>discussed</u> into their commentary! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
Hey, don't tell us whether you all just decided to drag on up and join a motorcycle club....but for gosh sakes send somebody on up here 'pronto' who at least acts like theywere at this important meeting in the first place......
"...So what your saying is you didn't attend the meeting and you have no clue as to what is going on? This must be a first for the all knowing all seeing mighty Blackballed.....
....From what "I" saw presented it's all 24inch trail in the U.P. and the Advisory Board passed a motion to support it.
Then again..."I" may be wrong and you will just have to <u>wait</u>...to find out.[/quote]
You know, before I quit travelling to these meetings after being denied the rightful opportunity to speak at same by the very author of this thread and the DNR in unison,,,I somehow comprehended <u>every</u> <u>word</u> <u>spoken</u> in those rooms and even took the time to quickly comment on what was newly brought forward in that short time frame when considering the 3 months between my opportunity to do so.
Please forgive me for sounding a bit condescending here, TOG...yet what with Muddy blurting out whatever numbers or time frame fantasies he's fixated on at the moment...and considering <u>your</u> apparent inabilty to give any kind of accurate recap of the night's events...are you two guys just both 'unsure' of what you actuallywitnessed that night...or is this simple information concerning what "22,000 or more" Michigan atvers publicly announced/desired for the very <u>first</u> time in the history of Michigan motorized recreation....all one big secret once again?
I understood why guys like Dick and Steve dearly hated to give me those extra 3 minutes that individuals such as Bill C. would receive without even asking (the two of them even joked about the proper procedure regarding this years ago)....yet what really amazed me during the public commentary at the end of these meetings....was how few were able to even incorporate anything <u>that</u> <u>was</u> <u>just</u> <u>discussed</u> into their commentary! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]
Hey, don't tell us whether you all just decided to drag on up and join a motorcycle club....but for gosh sakes send somebody on up here 'pronto' who at least acts like theywere at this important meeting in the first place......
May 14, 2006 | 09:04 AM
#820
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,572
Likes: 0
What is really going on in Michigan
The ORV Board usually has no big problem giving an extra minute to those that actually have something USEFUL to discuss. When some crybaby that has a history of not making much sense in most of his past ORV BOARD minutes thru the years [and NOBODY wants to hear him in the first place] than it is what it is!
Given the fact that 99.9% of Michigan ORV users would like to see our sport actually move FORWRD instead of BACKWARDS,we are under NO obligation to speak word one to such a critic as you BB about ANYTHING that went on in last Wednesdays ORV meeting.
Given the fact that 99.9% of Michigan ORV users would like to see our sport actually move FORWRD instead of BACKWARDS,we are under NO obligation to speak word one to such a critic as you BB about ANYTHING that went on in last Wednesdays ORV meeting.