Have been watching the discussions here for a few months, not commented, because it becomes very time consuming and there are many things to be involved in that are more productive to some extent, than spending time on one, of many websites. But of late, many things have been put up here, some are quite distance from what really went on and the rumors are spreading.

We as ORV people, have far better things to do with our time, than to punch a PC keyboard. That time could be much better spent, e-mailing a Representative, Senator or MDNR personal stating your wishes. Better yet, become directly involved and join a club, or form one in your own area.

Quite frankly, the future of our sport is in some serious jeopardy. I know that because I am the Chair of the DNR ORV Trail Advisory Board in Michigan. The absolute last thing we want to do, is have a division among us. We need to all be going in the same direction, the same page, as much as possible. Don't care if you 2, 4 or six wheels. We are going to have areas of disagreement. That don't mean we have to be disagreeable. End result will be, we agree far more, than we disagree.

We all want more trail, we all want it to be better maintained, we all want it so we don't get lost and we hate a ticket. We want to be able to at least be able to get food, gasoline and a reasonable distance from either lodging or camping while enjoying this recreational activity. Better yet, we would like the priviledge of riding from our home, if we live in northern Michigan, or riding from our motel or campground to the trail.

Having been deeply involved in ORV activity for over two decades, both with motorcycles and ORV's. Own a 230 Honda, wife has a TT125 and we both enjoy our 400 MAX. Live one mile from the trailhead and it irks me to no end, we have to trailer everything but the Honda, its street legal, more expense.

Facing us in a big way is this "Healthy Forest Initiative". We have not seen but the very beginning of this yet. You had best get yourself educated on this and "prepare for the worst and hope for the best".

Let me hit on some of this "distant from the truth stuff":

ORV Advisory Board is just that, an Advisory Board. Has no power, zero, is appointed by the DNR. Serves as a means for us as users groups to convey our message to the DNR. Three members are ORV orientated, other four, may not have ever rode an ORV. Some good people on there at the moment, have had one meeting together, not sure how they will jell in the future.

"Fee's going up next year" No, takes an act of legislature! However, has not been an increase in 13 years. IF, significant more trail is put on the ground to meet todays needs, IF
suitable maintenance is provided, IF more access is given to gas, food and lodging and a few more things corrected, we as user groups should support an increase.

FACT, $4.2 million "spend down" was authorized by an act of legislature, signed by the Governor on October 5th and $900,000 was placed in the ORV budget of 06 at the November 9th ORV Board meeting. This just didn't happen, it took action by several folks involved in Lansing. The $4.2 will be spent over the next 5 years, as per the long established formula, 50% for trail maintenance, 31.25 per cent for enforcement, 12.5 per cent for restoration, 3 1/8 per cent for administration and 3 1/8th per cent float.
Remaining out of the 06 budget is $400,000. for trail maintenance, question now is how much will be spent for new signage and how much for additional grooming. There is also about $100,000. in the restoration fund. We can expect the DNR to tell us how these are going to be spent at the next ORV Board meeting.

HB 5343: Anyone who read that Bill and understood all they read, would soon realize, it was a piece of "undersireable legislation". We can and will, do far better than that when its all over. Hope you all realize, some who post on here, are not telling it exactly like it is. Was any mention made of the cost of widening about 1,000 miles of trail to 60" and who was going to do it? What would the after affects be? Speed, safety, erosion and a host of others. There is a better way of accomplishing this same objective.

MMRC: Woody described it pretty close, we all need to work together! We have strengh in numbers. That is the purpose of MMRC. MMRC is compiled from ORV user groups. We do have "friends" in other well publicly recognized organizations and we do work with them quite nicely. We are quite selective in who is involved, we need people who are assetts, not liabilitys. The most important thing here is "WE", not what is in it for me. Its "WE", what is good for 2 wheeled, 4 wheeled and 6 wheeled. We all enjoy doing what we do and there should more and better opportunity for everyone! The thoughts expressed in this group, are collective from many groups, not an individual.

GAINS: I will lay down some the gains of the past 12 months against anyone. Certainly, I or WE could not have made all these gains. It was the involvement of many, many folks, giving up a lot of hours, going through a great deal of agony and sacrifice to thier familys. Yes, including some members of the DNR staff!

A promise of 25% more trail on the ground by 2008. DNR must submit a plan to legislature by May 1st of o6.

The $4.2 million in "reserve funds" spent down by 2008. First $900,000. included in the 06 budget.

ORV Safety Training program dramatically changed. Not complete yet, but some recommendations have been made, including "hands on" option, was excluded from Safety Training fund. First $35. comes from the fund. Classroom only training, $20. from Safety Fund paralells other Michigan programs for hunter safety, snomobile, and watercraft. Not the most desireable, but something that gives the basics, over 4,000 kids took this program in 05. Much higher participation than ever before. Odds are, this program will be depleted of funds in a year or two. Wonderfull, thats what we want, kids getting some sort of training! More work is to be done in the Task Force, including classroom material and in the area of instructor qualifications.
Bear in mind, in 05, we had the classroom only program being offered only by badge and gun people, some added on additional fees. In 05, no club, organization or private party could get any monies from the fund, no matter what thier level of skills to train. This will be changed for 07, we have asked for an academy, we will be reviewing all instructional materials. This was not given to us, we fought for it very hard, have probably ended up with the best working relationship with the DNR on this issue, than ever has existed!

There were others, speed limits on trails, you won't see them unless its a serious local problem.

Opening of some new trail in various places, one 100 mile streach in the U.P., some smaller ones in the lower.

We have many serious problems ahead, implementation of the new methods of ORV Safety and getting instructors and the public informed on availability.

We have to deal with the final outcome of the Draft Plan, are we going to support it or become highly organized and speaks our dislikes. Only 315 responded to the original out of 180,000 users. Probably 50 of those 315 responses were from environmental people.

Looks as if, we could be facing even more trail closure because of the "Healthy Forest Initiative". Time to sell out, no way. We will win in the end. We have too many "friends" in high places. Our money spent talks quite well when we talk about how much we spend in these communitys.

We need far more people getting involved. In less than 12 months, we have an election for township, county and state governments. Best thing for you to do, is get aquainted with those running, ask them thier positon on ORV use! Actively support the good guys. Spend less time with the "trash talk" on the P.C., do something productive! The easiest thing to do in the world is to tell what is wrong, the hardest things is to have a solution that is accepted by the majority. Next thing is to get it implemented at an affordable cost.

I am willing to answer any question you may post, if I do not have the answer, I will try and get it. My schedule is very busy, in the past 12 months, I participated in over 55 meetings that were ORV related, drove over 7,000 miles. Each meeting takes both preparation and some follow up. So bear with me please, if I do not get back right away. However, I am not the least interested of having an endless daily or weekly dialog with any one individual. Again, far better things to do for the benefit of the entire sport.

Irregardless of what some might say, we are making some good progress, but your involvement is critical. Some say I am crazy for going this route, we will see. Obviously, there is no way to completely satisfy 180,000 users spending 4,000,000 rider days annually. But we can always make it the goal, to have far more happy, than sad!

Meantime, ride safe, stay on the trail and enjoy your time spent ORVing

 

BUSYRIDER,
Is that ALL you have to report on the GOOD THINGS for ORV users?What are you guys doing with my hard earned 16.25 cent ORV sticker money?

Listen man,I PAY my 16.25 cent ORV sticker fee,and im going to tell you dude,that the trails I ride should have gas on them every 20 miles,a motel stay every 25 miles ,and a few Bars with good women and booze about every 30 miles would also benefit me.And while im at it,can you get these tree branches cut back off the trail a little bit more too,and oh yah,I want the trails a little wider too so I can get my daddy's Jeep down them without scratching the paint.See,I 'll have to steal my daddy's Jeep when he takes the preachers daughter to the Republican Convention in New Orlean's this Christmas,and I dont want to bring it back with any scratches cause the old man can get a little cranky at times after spending the night with a fine little speciman of a women as fine as the preachers daughter.

Know what I mean man!

 

BusyRider, thanks for your thread/post you wrote.

I did not know such a low responce there was to the orv plan comments. I would have thought there should have been more than that. I know I sent in my comments to it, but it seems very many did not.

Thank you for your post, I think most will like what you post here.

I hope that muddy4life was joking with his reply to your post, but if not, we can only hope this thread does not go like the one he started.

Thank you again for your post.

Motorsports[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

Hey Mud, your humor is a bit enjoyable. However, under the Draft Plan, a new approach is addressed to trail maintenance. In total, something around the two hundred mark attended the three public hearings, 315 made written comments. That should give the DNR ample input as to what people want.

The "drift" I got from the hearings, everyone wanted more grooming and ATV folks wanted a full 50" trail. Side-by-side people wanted more trail, along with everyone else. 5343 did not address that, it only wanted to take existing trail and widen it out. Clearly, not the answer!

Everyone has said to use more "modern equipment", not all understand what the obstacles are to groom the trail. Have to deal with various soil conditions, yes, some areas do have hard soils. Some have considerable rock, others are pure sand of differant grades. Some is silt, some is sugar, some with moisture, other being very dry. Some areas are full of roots, stumps scattered here and there. Not any one piece of equipment will handle all problems.
Funny, no one has said, "Here is the real solution for equipment". In a dry year, you could groom a very deep sand trail, in just a very few busy days, trail would need some attention again.

A real solution to this is more trail, spread the use out. We are trying to have 4 million user days on a little over 2 square miles of land. Simply is not ever going to work! New machine sales are at around the 35,000 mark annually, huge growth!

Do believe it is general opinion, those areas with the higest use, need much more maintenance. Question is, how much is enough? We should have a trail that will accept moderate speeds without beating someone to shear agony. We should have a trail that presents some challenge, that is the purpose. However, it should not be bottoming out the suspension and breaking things on every outing, if rode at respectable speeds.

Some, if they cannot ride the machine with the throttle almost to the stop, complain of bad trail. They need to be at the racetrack. Others are not interested in going at any great speed, simply want to enjoy a nice ride, but they don't wish to be beating on the bars because of the rough trail. Probably a never ending debate.

There is $400,000. in the "cookie jar" for additional maintenance in 06. Every request for maintenance grants for 06, has been satisfied. Now to empty the "cookie jar", this could be done on signage, which is part of maintenance and high on peoples desires, or it could be used for grooming. Going to be interesting times over the next few months. Lets hope at some point down the road in the history of ORVing, 06 was a turning point for the better!

We do have some things going for us, presentation of the Draft Plan, no doubt, there will be many good things in there we wish to support, others, we may have to challenge. We have the presentation by the MDNR to the legislature by May 1st of 06 on 25% per cent more trail. We do have many legislators watching this very closely. We have an additional $900,000. coming into the program over the next five years. Not all is bad as some would like to portray.

By the way Mud, you might want to follow fathers thoughts on politics, both the House and Senate of the Michigan Legislature are controlled by Republicans. You may even consider putting Amway products on your Christmas list. Put down the booze in 99, have a fantastic wife, but I do need a soda and a burger on a regular basis and I do want to ride up to the door to get it!

 

BusyRider,

Thank you again for another great post.

Motorsports [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

Five hundred or so, out of 180,000, was not exactly the calvary. But considered good response in the Capitol city. Had we not ask for the 30 day extension and recieved it, we could have been under 100, that would have been horrendous response from a group as large as ours.

Those of us in leadership position's will always need the input of the average person. They help keep us on track and give us some really good idea's. I personally do wonder sometimes, why I am doing this stuff. But every once in a while we make a gain or at least hold our own. Believe me, it is quite differant, than what is being portrayed here.

Some things, I will not comment on in public forum. Certainly, not going to show our hand and I think most will understand that. But we always must keep this in mind, no matter who is in the leadership position. They are only as good as the people they are surrounded by and that is you! The more we have involved, the better our chances of sucess. The better quality of people involved, the better our chances.

 

MOTO,
I gaureentee you that BUSYRIDER took my last post ''all in FUN' as we know each other very well..We have both worked together on ORV issues thru the years and will continue to do so in the future..This guy has got more done for our sport in the few short years that he has been at it than the last few ORV leaders did in 10 yrs time,and im proud to know him.

Great job Dick,keep up the good work!

 

Very well said, Dick I hope this will squash some of the ney-sayers and stop all the bitching and negitive comments.I see a lot of good coming out of the last years work.Thanks for all you do.Woody!

 

Just to illustrate how these guys work, how quickly these statements fall apart when merely questioned and just how much of a chore it is to get these guys to be PROUD of anything that they disseminate as 'the truth'....I'm going to ask two simple questions:

One...."Dick" (who Woddy400 claims to be the author of this topic) may refer here to the current chairman of our Michigan Orv Advisory Board. If this is true (these guys are either really stupid at keeping a secret or were forced to bring in somebody who could spell and get a point across) the citizens of this state deserve to know just who they are talking to and/or where said PUBLIC position originates.(which has been my point since <u>day</u> <u>one</u>).
We've already witnessed the cycle guys being <u>forced</u> to come on in here and 'spin' these threads for lack of previous structure and just plain common verbage...so again, please simply let us know who we are talking to.
I'm John Stears from Kalamazoo, Michigan and am proud of it.
Now sit back and watch these guys make every excuse in the book to cover the author of this post's ****!
You have to remember, I've been simply asking the chairman of our Michigan Orv Advisory Board (and its members) TO COME OUT AND PUBLICLY COME DOWN ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER OF MICHIGAN ORV ISSUES FOR YEARS NOW... to not only absolutely no avail...but to continued refusals to so much as "repeat" what they did say....in even simple <u>correspondence</u>!

and question #2....if this actually is the first time a major Michigan orv representative has ever come out <u>publicly</u> with the positions he is representing Michigan citizenry to the DNR on our behalf....why does he run away so quickly when the public attempts to <u>identify him...</u> or ask even the simplest of questions that he not only 'yesterday'...seemed so willing to answer?

I'd love to get in on this debate....yet I believe predicting/illustrating this initial response is a much more informative method of proving "what is really going on in Michigan"....and how these guys cut and run when anybody beyond the "we just want to ride" crowd" asks (what at least "I" believe to be) little simple and <u>intelligent</u> questions.

Just sit back and watch, folks...there's not a one of 'em even man enough to walk up and shake your hand at a meeting!....let alone shake that "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" image <U>here</U>!!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

 

At least we know our "mystery guy" is more of a "leader" than anybody else I've run into in Michigan orv politics...every other person I've questioned about their position...has denied even being one!