Yes, that's for one year, from March 31 to March 31 (unless I'm getting the month wrong, have to go look).
With this sticker you can ride:
All of the ORV trails (~3000 miles).
All of the scrambles areas (some have an additional entrance fee).
All of the forest roads in the upper peninsula (thousands of miles)
All of the county roads that are open by local ordinance to ORVs (not all counties are).
Operate on the frozen surface of the lakes and waterways in the State.

 

TheOtherGuy, answers to your questions;

1. You got it, we are only appointed, have zero authority, can only make recommendations.

2. On recommendation of field staff whose reasons are very questionable.

3. Unknown, under review process

4. Spent 6 hours reviewing area and taking notes, sent comments to DNR Department head.
Contacted several clubs, made public announcements of the potential closure and urged all to post
matter on their web sites. Advised all to make written comment to DNR Department head.

5. Number one, we don't want the money "stolen" as we recently seen with the watercraft people, they
lost $5. million bucks. We paid that money for a purpose, to be used on the trail system, not to be
placed in a "reserve fund". It is quite complex on how the DNR spends their allocation from the
legislature each year, they have " X " amount to spend. They then have to prioritize those funds.
ORV spending was not on the list as it should have been, legislators and the Governor made ORV
spending a priority to MDNR.

6. Answer is -0-, ZERO. Only if they apply for and recieve a grant like anyone else. Grants go to various
groups, may be a County Park Commission, a service club, a snowmobile club for portions, a
government agency such as USFS. Grantee's are quite variable, often because there is no other
group in the area or the state, willing to do the work.

7. Unknown. When the time comes, some work will be placed out by bid, such as bridgework, the use
of heavy equipment such as dozers and trucks for moving aggregate. These types of equipment are
not owned by the average club. Other work, such as signage, brushing, we would assume will be
done by clubs, if insurance is still available. That issue is raised in the proposed Draft plan,
raising the fee $100. per mile, will this work then be taken over by management staff and clubs
forced out, very concerning.

8. ZERO pay, simply voulnter. Do get paid the for mileage from my home to the meetings, and a meal
allowance. Am offered overnite lodging, take it about half the time. Nearly a 3 hour drive home.
Not always the best of weather and not in favor of dodging deer during the rut for over 150
miles. Any miles I drive related to this position to attend meetings or view areas, I do get very
small stipend form D-14, usually pays for the fuel cost only. Drove over 7,000 miles in 05 doing
this activity.

9. It was suggested to me to send in a resume. Had this opportunity a few years back and
declined. My obligations at that time were to my wife, whom I later lost to cancer. It was
because of her urging, I proceeded on the second opportunity. I attended my first meeting just
six weeks after her passing, just 15 minutes into the meeting, I was elected chair by those on
the Board. Only knew one person on the Board and barely. Yes, anyone could be elected to the chair.
None of those people knew who I was, or any of my background. For whatever reason, I got the
votes. Yes, any Michigan resident has a chance of being chair. The object is, to get on the Board and
I have seen all sorts of ways people got on there. Some have used political influance, others were
simply "Joe Blows" off the street. Most are affiliated with an organization and have some sort
of public experiance in their lives.

You ask how you can be involved, simple, join a club, be involved. Understand the sport as best
you know how. Not all groups think the same, East, West, North and South demographics each
have their own little variations on what needs to be done. USFS does things a little differant
than MDNR, same for Unit Managers, each has their own style. Dealers Association has a little
differant agenda than the user, much broader than ours, differant problems, but we work
together nicely.
Irregardless of our varied differances, we are now working better than anytime I can remember
going back to September 16, 1969. Sure we are going to disagree, but that don't mean, we have
to be disagreeable. Come on now, we are trying to get 180,000 people to go in at least, a
similar direction for the benefit of the sport and we are trying to get a bureau to join in who do
not, for the most part, ride ORV's. Some would just as soon we went away, they don't like our
noise, they don't like our dust, they don't like us being in the forest. They could care less how
much we generate for local economies and they have millions of people who support their
thinking. Thank goodness, not all are that way, or we would be gone!

 

Outa here till maybe Tuesday, have a couple of meetings to plan for. They have given me a 10 minute time frame to speak in, little or no chance for rebuttle to very strong opposition. Glad I have some good locals to help. Best get my ducks in row and not let them down.

The most important assett we have is "WE", alone, we are only a voice!

I did forget to mention one thing, I do get very little monetary compensation, but I am "very wealthy", I have the most wonderfull thing any one man could ask for, "fantastic friends"! I am so lucky!!!

 

Mr Busyrider,
Thankyou for your response to my questions. I am still eagerly awaiting answers from Mr. Blackballed.

 

I would like to respond to muddy,
I have personally known BB for several years and he has always been a dear friend and honest person in regards to any situation or circumstance that has ever evolved. He compleply believes in the sport of ATVing and has always gone out of his way to enhance the safety, training, and availability of anyone from "8 to 80" to be able to enjoy this sport without cost at all possible means. What he has found over the journey, is that there are always folks out there that want to make a dollar on the fun game but do not want to admit it to the general public. AND, when he calls these people out, the response is everywhere from threatining to character assacination. Bill, you need to relax and let things roll on because your past is not very clean as you would like folks to believe it is..... As an example: you were making $100.00 a pop to train a young child and then demanding $25.00 for their parents to attend to session.... That IMO is called robbery. You know BB is right on the money with his facts, and although he may not smoothly lay then out to your level, they are true.
You need to stop trying your strong arm tactics with young people because they do not impress me at all and I think you really would rather try to scare women and chilren than face a real man.....And I am the real man that you do not want to tangle with if you get my drift. If you do not get my drift, make a move....

 

SUPERMAN,


First and foremost,I dont know where you get off saying that I charge parents to come in and sit in on a class with their kids.Your claim of BB being right on with his facts is more BS than I've seen in a 7 day comedy show.And even ''if'' I were charging parents to sit in on a safety class,its non of your freaking BUSSINESS and if you dont like it,you could go and find another instructor.Now how do you like that for ''strong-arming''

The ''fact'' of the matter is that I've ''never'' charged a parent to sit in on their kids class.If they decided to RIDE with their kids on the training track in the afternoons session,than I do get some extra funds for that.There are some instructors that do charge the parent to sit in on the classroom and its perfectly legal.The instructor is actually training ANOTHER person and under the rules,is allowed to cover all expenses related to the training class.AGAIN,I do NOT do this,but I dont banter those organizations that do,its THEIR bussiness.

QUOTE***You need to stop trying your strong arm tactics with young people because they do not impress me at all and I think you really would rather try to scare women and chilren than face a real man.....And I am the real man that you do not want to tangle with if you get my drift. If you do not get my drift, make a move.End of QUOTE***

Im not real sure WHERE your going with the above comment,but let me just say this..I have NEVER had anybody tell me that I try strong arm tactics with young kids and women in anything I do,especially my safety classes.I have on the other hand,been issued awards for outstanding service to the ORV community,was given another award in 2003 from the ASI as being the MidWest Regions #5th rated instructor [covers 13 States] and have NUMEROUS ''thank you'' letters from 100s of happy students.So just like 90% of BBs comments on these forums,I concider your above comment to have about the same merit and value as what BB says in here,useless and a big bag of hot air.

Now as far as me wanting to ''tangle'' with you [a REAL man!] and ME making the first move?I beleive you allready made the ''first move'' by making a comment with regards that I should'nt ''tangle'' with you and for me to make a move.ANYBODY that knows me well [which YOU obviously DONT] knows that little chicken-hit comments like yours[especially over your computer] dont mean much to me.You see,I dont scare very easily and am FULLY capable of taking care of myself.I will only tell you to be very careful WHO YOU make these silly threats to,especially when you dont have the ''slightest idea'' of what the OTHER guy is capable of doing to you on the OTHER end,should YOU make the FIRST MOVE----Oh my,how I wish I could tell you MORE!


You should also make sure you get your facts straight BEFORE you come into these forums and make an *** out of yourself with redicules accusations.You also dont need to tell me ANYTHING with regards to your friend John.I know him well and there was even I time when I respected him.

Now if you really want to HELP the ORV situation out,you would try and find the truth instead of speading lies..Now im suggesting that you go do the right thing and take your ATV out for a GOOD ride and get your thoughts together.Come back in and talk to me like the MAN you CLAIM you are.

You'd find out that im OK!

 

I guess while I am awaiting a response to my questions from Mr. Blackballed, I will go ahead and ask Mr. 2trakr a few questions if I may of course,

Mr. 2trakr,
I am going to ask you these questions because I noticed you belong to several groups. The questions I have are in regards to orv groups and I may slip and use the word "you" while meaning the groups and not necessarily you personaly. Please forgive me if I do.

Question # 1 Is there really a large division of "motorcycle riders" and "ATV riders", Do the ATV guys really hate the bike guys and visa versa?

Question #2 When will the Gladwin trail be reopened?

Question #3 What have you done to reopen the Gladwin Trail?

Question #4 How much money do you make off of my $16.25 sticker

Question #5 Is this MMRC a top secret organization?

Question #6 Can anybody join this MMRC and what are the dues?

Question #7 By reading some of the posts in here it would lead someone to beleive that the D-14 and the CCC have direct access to Michigans treasury to take what ORV sticker money they want, Is this true?

 

No, there is no large division. There are small groups in either camp that don't like, or put the blame on, the other side. Most of that is out of ignorance, or I should say lack of knowledge, on the part of the negativity.

The south loop of the Gladwin trail is, and has been, open. The middle loop (first half of the trail north of M-61) is supposed to be re-opened "any day now". All of the items on the DNR's "fix list" have been completed since September, we don't have a good answer from the DNR as to why it's not open right now. The north loop (north half of the trail north of M-61) remains closed and has been recommended by the Gladwin DNR for permanent closure. It is at the Division level for review by the DNR right now; no decision has been made.

My club (GLDS) has the maintenance grant for that trail system, I am personally involved in it's maintenance and also live several miles from the trail. I have made calls, attended meetings, wrote letters, performed inspections, made improvements and tried to ensure everyone who can make a difference is aware of what is going on and what needs done. I am not alone in these items as fellow club members are also directly involved with these same functions.
My club (GLDS) received $3762.00 in 2004 for maintaining the Gladwin and Geels trail systems which came from the ORV Fund, which your sticker money pays for. This is brushing and signing only, grading is a separate item. Of that money, I personally spent money out of my pocket to pay for food/fuel and related items to get to and camp at either trail system multiple times during the year. I did, however, get a free meal at our annual club meeting which the maintenance money paid for.
I know about it and I'm not James Bond or in the CIA. They are not that active and so haven't made too many people's radar. It's a very small group comprised of representatives from various motorized recreation groups in Michigan designed to help bring focus on key issues between the different groups. Been around for about a year and a half.
There is no joining or associated dues as far as I know. If one wishes to represent a club or specific group/organization, I'd suspect they could be accommodated.

No, not remotely true. These organizations receive grant money for trail maintenance and safety training just like the other participating clubs and organizations do and are held to the same requirements/standards and whims of the DNR.

Didn't catch your name, by the way.

 

Let me tell it like it is on the ORV training, as I know it. In September of 03, ORV Saftety Training went to the DNR from the DOE. We immediately asked for some meetings with Law Enforcement Division so we could get some input as to what and how things would be done. The first meeting was in the summer of 04 and a disaster, totally! DNR was going to do their thing, teach the same as snowmobile, hunter and watercraft programs. Classroom, videos, a 2-3 hour program.
So we took it up the ladder a ways and got the ORV Safety Task Force. That group met seven times during 05 with 5 hour meetings each time. Still has more to do. The thing almost went in "the ditch" at the end of the second meeting and it took a lot of phone work to keep it alive.
There were a host of problems, yes, we did hear some horror storys in the background, as Superman mentioned. But I do think that sort of thing was rare and not the norm. Another reason for change. We also knew in the "new program", initiated by the DNR for the 05, that two County Sheriff's Department were getting the $20. bucks per student from the ORV fund, plus they were adding on another $25., thought that to be a real rip. $15. per hour per student for showing video's and the instructor did not know how to ride. They may have 50 students or more in the class.
In our recommendations to the Department, those things are gone! The DNR will keep their classroom program at $20. per student. In addition, we will have "hands on" available with $35. per student coming out of the ORV fund. ALL instructors will go through the academy, they will know how to ride! It will be permissible for those teaching "hands on" to charge a fee over the $35. So now we have free market enterprise. All one has to do is look at drivers ed for a son or daughter, a family simply shops for the best deal for them. It might be Sears, ABC Driving school or whomever, the people will have a choice.
The objective is to train as many as possible with a beginning goal of 10,000 annually. In 04, we only taught 2788, a rather pathetic number. In 05, with the new classrom program in place, that number jumped to 6826 as of early November. The trade off was, most of those did not get "hands on" training.
Will this help, lets hope so, if we can get the kids to wear a helmet, learn a few basic safety items and adhere to them, we are probably better off than before.
To get a real grip on safety training, we need the Director to endorse our recommendations, we then need some real leadership from the DNR and that looks promising. We had a real sharp young fellow from DNR participate in all the Task Force meetings. He is now in charge of all ORV Saftety training and will grow with the program, lets hope he don't get promoted and lose him. We need this Academy implemented and people lined up to attend. Twenty-two AMA clubs and promoters are in that line. But we have to get all interested out doing classes in as many countys as possible in the state and we need to encourage people to cough up a few extra bucks and take the "hands on" program.
Part of the Task Force recommendations was to have an onsight investigation of each ORV fatality, same as snowmobiles. Organize that data and perhaps give us a better sense of direction on how to better manage our training program. These results may be an eye opener for all of us, but we are going to deal with them!
If we can get this program fully implemented, we are confident, Michigan will be in the forefront of ORV Safety. If your kid don't have a certificate, see what you can do about getting them trained. By the way, parents can sit through this program with their son or daughter for free. There is a gray area of, if or not to charge them. If they get on the course and start riding, they should pay, little doubt about it. IF they actually become a classroom participant instead of an observer, that too becomes a question.
For us to sit here and point fingers at each other and basically shouting, that is non-conductive to our progress. We need to be thinking how we can move FORWARD.
Incidently, FYI, nearly all those who taught the traditional "hands on" in the past, got ZERO funds from the ORV training fund in 05 because of the DNR reading of the law. We lost several training folks because of this, those who stayed had few students, they could take the DNR classroom program for "free". Most only want the certificate. Maybe not the best situation, only time will tell. The worst thing is, the state has no accident data, none with any real value that we can even use as a benchmark.
With the signatue of the DNR Director, ORV Safety training will enter a new era, is it going to be perfect, probably not. But we are moving forward and doing somthing new and it could get us some great results.

 

My Association just happend to be one of a FEW ORV safety organizations in the entire State of Michigan that did ''hands on'' training in 2005. As Dick stated,the number of trained students went up in 2005,however,the QUALITY of training was seriousy down..

What happend was when the DNR took the safety program over,they pretty much ''hand picked'' Law Enforcement officers from all over the State of Michigan,waved a ''magic wand'' and made about 300 of them certified ORV safety Instructors with little to NO training to become PROPERLY certified.Some of these instructors even told me that they had NO IDEA what to instruct in their classrooms.

Now these are the same guys that were sucking money out of YOUR 16.25 cent ORV safety education fund.All the while,the Associations that were doing these classes the CORRECT way [hands on] could not get ONE penny from the ORV fund.

Your ORV dollars---hard at work!