D-Butt, It doesn't suprise me that no one will listen to him in Michigan. With all that cynicism, he probably does more to hurt the cause in his state than he realizes. He sure has managed to derail the topic here.

 

Moving the discussion back on topic, the MOUNTAIN FIREFIGHTERS ASSOCIATION 29th Annual Regional Fire - Rescue School in Hazard, Kentucky last weekend was a success. The ATV SAFETY & RESCUE CLASS was a big hit. Twenty fire - rescue and EMS pesonnel learned how to safely operate ATV's and UTV's before experiencing what it's like to actually respond to one of these calls. During this 2 day, 16 hour course, the ATVSI Safety Program was incorporated into a class covering off-road vehicle safety concerns, laws pertaining to ATV operation, and use of ATV's and UTV's during off-road search and rescue operations. After one scenario required students to mount a response to a simulated ATV accident in a remote location, several responders commented on the severity of the trails leading up to the ridge above the training area. "Four wheel drive was a must! Everyone went home knowing they had experienced something new in this training that would eventually save a life some day.
Maybe their own!


Unfortunately, about 30 minutes after the class ended, a distracted driver, traveling at a high rate of speed, crossed left of center on a two lane highway and struck the pickup truck and trailer being driven by one of the ATV Rescue Team leaders. Only by the Grace of GOD was no one seriously injured. However the pickup truck, a 6' x 12' utility trailer, and a specially outfitted Suzuki Vinson 500 4X4 ATV received substantial damage. Additionally, most of the team's specialized rescue gear, including their off-road rescue trailer, received some damage in the collision. To make matters worse, the liability insurance of the teenaged female driver at fault had lapsed. While the VFD's insurance will cover most of the damages, these dedicated volunteers are still out the $1,000 deductible amount.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Dragginbutt

BBalled, I started to explain, but thought best of it. There is no debating with an idiot. Frankly too many people are tired of it. Your point of view has been stated, and duely noted.. now let someone else state something without being attacked. Ah forget it They should have banned you for life.</end quote></div>

If you'd like to 'explain' something...do it.
The only thing being 'attacked' here is your statemet regarding the Consumer Poduct Safety Commission's alleged responsibility for trail widths in any way, shape or form and how this distorted 'fact' is central to your entire argument (see above).

If AtvConnection chooses to ban me for simply correcting you or anybody else out there on the facts regarding safety-related issues or exactly who is responsible for what regarding them...so be it.

Either way, it does not take somebody who hasn't yet sat through this "attack anybody who DARES question us" movie in the off-road communiuty for years on end...to realize that they also are in for the same treatment if they choose to speak out on even the most basic of matters concerning this sport.(please see my signature below and ask yourself how nationally recognized orv leaders hang on for literally years and years with expired terms in their positions of unquestioned power...while disparaging the character of all who question them, time after time).

Good luck with this say/see/hear/no evil safety-related discussion going forward guys....as you will find few willing to comment beyond your age old solution of continually 'describing' each individual incident....as opposed to actually uncovering the root causes of who has effectively led us all straight in to this mess in the first place; with their silence.(ie: it's pretty hard to convince folks to wear helmets if 'your guy' is insisting that close to 50% of atvs are used for slow-moving 'hunting' use that don't necessarily "require" them...and he's being supported by the #1 folks on 'our side' fighting tooth and nail EVERY DAY to do away with 'on-road' helmeting requirements at every state in the union....).

Would you like to start a thread on that one?....I thought not. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

 

Is it just me, or are there OTHERS who have a hard time figuring out the points trying to be made out of most of BBs posts.

Perhaps im getting old and senile?

Bill

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
Is it just me, or are there OTHERS who have a hard time figuring out the points trying to be made out of most of BBs posts.
Perhaps im getting old and senile?
Bill</end quote></div>

ATVA/AMA/ABATE...

Perhaps you're simply a longtime youth atv safety instructor...who prays that one of your students never raises his or her little hand to have you explain away the above as related to effectively proven modeled parental behavior or (heaven forbid) even 'stand for anything' true leadership within the off-road community itself?....

(young child raises hand in training class):
"Mr. Bill...I'm having 'a hard time trying to figure out the points being made' here....as it seems that if you are getting old or senile...and I am obviously much to 'young and stupid' to intellectually rationalize the inconsistincies involved in orv leadership supported organizations here...which one of us is actually correct in regards to the classic "do what I say; not as I do" adage that both your 'mother ship' organization and indeed my parents sitting here beside me obviously support...???"

 

Yah,

and its a damn shame the ORV leadership across America cannot understand a sentence that Mr BB himself writes in any forum.

OR?
It just might possible be that not even ONE of them give a damn about much anything he has to say anymore. [even IF they were able to understand a sentence]

 

If only I hadn't been down this road too many times already...

 

Did anyone see the tragedy last week with the two girls that fell into a mine shaft? Let's see... Machine too big by CPSC standards, double up riding... Parents didn't clear the area of hazards... I just don't knowwhat safety equipment was being worn... But there were several things that contributed... I do not want to criticize the parents, they have enough on their shoulders right now.. but I hope others that are reading this do think about what happened, and what they could do for their own kids to make things safer in their local riding environment. That is what this thread is all about. Make that leap by taking some action....

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Dragginbutt
"Did anyone see the tragedy last week with the two girls that fell into a mine shaft?....I hope others that are reading this do think about what happened, and what they could do for their own kids to make things safer in their local riding environment. That is what this thread is all about. Make that leap by taking some action....</end quote></div>

I'm pretty certain that it has become clear (to most) that "taking action" in regards to safety issues in their off-road communities involves either keeping your mouth shut in regards to what one observes actually happening in their local program and any solutions that they might have in mind to solve these problems...or growing the thick skin needed to weather unrelenting attacks from both orv leadership and all the non-profits protecting their subsidized 'stake' in the entire process.

Every trainer on here seems to glorify the 'storytelling' or 'tabloid' angle of the youth safety problems this community faces..more often than not followed up with a short feel good 'do the right thing' tag at the very end of theor post.

Yet when the conversation turns to just <u>how</u> we've been doing things in the past that require changing?(usually involving kicking trainers off of the subsidized feeding trough and forcing parents to actually be responsible financially or to prove hardship otherwise)...my oh my do the attacks and 'shoot the messenger' cries begin.

It has plain and simple become a racket, folks...and the sooner that we call this subsidized welfare for what it is....well then the sooner our funds can be pulled away from this mess and strictly concentrated on training trainers to be thrown out into a competitive free market involving cheaper training prices for families and more money into orv general funds....period.

 

The ASI safety courses will NEVER work as a federal mandated form of safety training,if one were to ever occur. The CPSC AGE/CC guidlines that they force instructors to abide by is redicules in about 95% of the kids that I've trained thru that organization thru out the years. Simply put, mom and dad are not going to spend their hard earned money to buy 13 yr old Joey,who weighs 140lbs and stands 5"6 tall, a 90cc ATV just to make the ASI and the CPSC happy. Its like trying to fit the SAME KID who would normally wear a size 10 shoe, lets just ''squeeze'' him into a size 6 instead.The ASI ATV safety program actually IMPEDES training of youth under the age of 16 because of their redicules AGE/CC guidelines.

No, im not comparing ATV's with shoe's. But these CPSC guidelines are redicules in most cases and I'd rather see us go to a proper size/fit than to use the CPSC Guidelines before we can instruct.