<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JustRandy

I have to admit I don't always take my trash with me. [img][/img] But I do bury it back in the woods where it will never be found again. Never anything more than a soda can though. Aluminum is good for pines anyway. It adds acid to the soil, which pines and many other trees love. All plastics I carry out the same way they came in and I would never bring anything glass with me riding. If I'm riding in a group, all the empties go back in the cooler. Basically, the goal is to leave the place like you found it or better for the next person to enjoy.

Since I bought all this property containing many varieties of trees (including some 50-60ft tall willow oaks near the house), I've been frantically trying to learn as much about trees as possible. The last thing I want is for something to happen to my oaks that shade the house and provide a nice 30ft swing for me n the kids. Not to mention, they are inspirational to look at.... and totally irreplaceable (they're 80 yrs old!). Anyway, about the worst thing you can do to a tree is rub the bark off with the side of your atv or whatever. The most alive part of the tree is right under the bark. Compacting the soil by continually riding over the roots is not good for them either. I'm not a tree hugger or anything like that, I'm just saying if your goal is to tread lightly, you should understand the good, the bad, and the "not that big of a deal" for the environment.</end quote></div>



More good points here. I don't know about the cans doing good for the trees or not, I'll have to look into it. I know I ALWAYS leave with more trash than I went in with. I also have some property (160 acres) with lots of trees; some old growth and some I have planted. The biggest issues I have is trespassers ignoring the NO TRESPASSING signs and not only tear up my trails but also make their own trails, tear up my CRP, and intentionally damage my deer feeders and deer stands.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: trx300man

If they were truly going that fast they prob went by him before he knew what was happening. Especially if they were close. I don't always see good spacing by these dudes. JMO</end quote></div>

Could be. I was just trying to replay it in my mind and I've never had that happen. Usually I hear them long before I see them and I'm already off the trail. Its the slower ones that I can't hear and I come barreling up on them. Luckily, I see them in plenty of time though. I suppose a little of everything has to happen at least once if you go riding enough.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: DeeDawg
More good points here. I don't know about the cans doing good for the trees or not, I'll have to look into it. I know I ALWAYS leave with more trash than I went in with. I also have some property (160 acres) with lots of trees; some old growth and some I have planted. The biggest issues I have is trespassers ignoring the NO TRESPASSING signs and not only tear up my trails but also make their own trails, tear up my CRP, and intentionally damage my deer feeders and deer stands.</end quote></div>

Aluminum is actually somewhat toxic to just about everything (including humans). I'm far from being a chemist, so I can't really explain the chemical actions invloved, but for some reason the addition of aluminum sulfate lowers the soil ph and is good for pines, oaks, blueberries, etc.

"If your soil is alkaline, you can lower your soil's pH or make it more acidic by using several products. These include sphagnum peat, elemental sulfur, aluminum sulfate, iron sulfate, acidifying nitrogen, and organic mulches. " http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm.../1994/4-6-1994/ph.html

Here's a list of plants and what soil type they like: http://www.bachmans.com/tipshe...rAcidAlkalineSoils.cfm

Just thought I'd throw this in there:

"The theory that wood chips and pine needles and oak leaves create acid as they decompose has to have been invented by someone who is still confused by the chicken first, or egg first controversy. In nature, all decisions are based on natural selection over time. If the largest concentration of pine forests or oak forests happen to be found where the soil tends to be more acid than not, does that mean that the acidity was somehow formed by the trees? Of course not; when tree seeds are distributed by nature, those that land and germinate in areas which are favorable to their growth are going to thrive. So, as a general rule, plants of all description are going to do best in areas where they grow and reproduce the best, i.e., the plants selected the soil, not the other way around. It is just too easy to assume that because oak and pine trees prefer acid soils, that their decomposing leaves created the acidity in the soil. Those soils were acid before the trees got there, or the trees would not have thrived and created forests." http://tomclothier.hort.net/page24.html


Yeah, I would be pissed too if I discovered someone had made a new trail for me. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img] I'm trying to protect my pines and there's no room for more trails. Those pines will be worth lots of money some day and its not all that difficult to kill one or start an epidemic of boring beatles by opening lots of wounds. Luckily, I havent had to contend with that. I usually patrol the trails daily and I rarely see any unidentified tire tracks. Sometimes, but rarely.

 

Oh,,, and I not saying to deliberately carry a case of beer into the woods and toss your empties into the oak or pine stands! I'm just saying if you carry a couple of cans with you on a ride and 10 miles in you decide to pop one and don't really want to deal with the sticky mess of an empty can, I wouldn't call you the devil if you buried the can out of sight among some oaks or pines. But I don't want people to run around justifing littering by saying its good for the trees! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]

 

I hate to get too far off topic but does anyone have any idea how many years it takes an aluminum can to disentegrate? I can tell you that I drink RC and I have found cans with a paint scheme from 15 years ago buried and they don't look desentgrated at all- just dirty. So to me that argument that we could throw cans down because they are beneficial to pines does not make sense. At they rate that they wear down, the trees are gonna get such a microscopic amount of aluminum that it will do NO good whatsoever. Now if you want to bury the ground in 10 or 20 feet worth of aluminum cans? Maybe then they could absorb a beneficial amount? SHHEEEEEEEEEsh!!!!!!!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

 

I think you have a very good point Robert. I'm sure it takes a VERY long time for a can to "go away". I too have found cans from a LONG time ago. Kinda neat actually... Little time capsules we stumble upon. I just hate when I find them near streams. It looks horrible and it can't be good for the fish and animals.

I searched on google and this is all I could find: http://answers.yahoo.com/quest...=20061003183650AATCZqO It says 80-100yrs for a can to biodegrade. That's a long time for a can to sit by a tree (good thing the trees can live much longer than that). I guess the only point I have left is that the can, at least, won't hurt the tree.

 

Erosion and the freeze thaw cycle assure that the can you bury won't stay there. Eventually it will work its way back to the surface. Anyone in a rocky area can attest how rocks magically appear in areas which were clear of rocks the previous fall. Anyone who has farm ground with old dump sites or homesteads can attest to the fact that even after they're cleaned up bits and pieces of debris work their way to the surface every year.

You may be hiding those cans now but eventually they'll work their way to the surface and someone else will have to clean up your mess.

Just take your trash back home and dispose of it properly. You carried it in and it is just as easy to carry it out if not more so since it is lighter.

 

If what you're saying is true, then all the tree roots would eventually be forced above ground too. I think what happens is the rain and wind wash and blow dirt off the rocks and expose them. I have that problem in a field I mow that used to be farmed. I think I get all the rocks out, and then I slam the mower blade into another rock. Of course, I also ride quads on the field too, so that's most of the problem. However, in a stand of trees there are lots of leaves and debris on the ground that prevent erosion. Each fall, the can will get deeper and deeper in the ground when more leaves fall on it and turn to dirt to feed the trees. If you bury something in the woods, you'll never see it again unless you draw a map and mark the location. As a matter of fact, here in GA we have laws to prevent erosion. Trees and grass must be planted quickly after a house is built or face fines n whatever. And during the process of construction, we have to use erosion barriers (nets, sandbags, etc) until the grass can be grown. Erosion is a BIG deal around here.