ATV age limit
#21
11-30-2007 | 08:39 AM
Pro Rider
Is old enough to know better, but too young to stop.
Is old enough to know better, but too young to stop.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,681
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From: Northern Virginia, near DC
ATV age limit
Hmmmm I doubt it is possible to really get a handle on the dollar figures unless you have them from the state in front of you. I suspect that if you canvassed the local merchants, you might get a difference in opinion regarding the actual impact. Some may say it is significant, while others may tell you it is very little.
Administering a state program of registration etc costs money too.... you can't plan on making large amounts of money to be used for trail building without adding up the costs involved. All states are different. I know that WI will require you to register your machine there and pay the tax difference if you come from a state that does not register ATV's. And there are quite a few out there that do not.
As for the age versus size argument.. that is one debate that has been argued for many years. I have come full circle on it. I agree there has to be some limitations. I also agree that kids being larger than they were when the original CPSC guidelines were developed might suggest that some treaking occur... However one thing that has not changed is the mental capacity that kids at certain ages posess. What I think the real ANSWER is would be for the manufacturers to wake up and build a larger frame machine with the smaller engine class to power it. THAT more than anything would be a MAJOR improvement. Kids will have fun on anything. Witness the resurgence of the powered scooters. Nothing says they need to be able to fly through the air... and it keeps them off full size machines.
Making them take a safety course is good business. The really hard thing to do is find people willing and able to teach them in a reasonable amount of time. Here isn VA, it is hard to find enough instructors to teach...
Administering a state program of registration etc costs money too.... you can't plan on making large amounts of money to be used for trail building without adding up the costs involved. All states are different. I know that WI will require you to register your machine there and pay the tax difference if you come from a state that does not register ATV's. And there are quite a few out there that do not.
As for the age versus size argument.. that is one debate that has been argued for many years. I have come full circle on it. I agree there has to be some limitations. I also agree that kids being larger than they were when the original CPSC guidelines were developed might suggest that some treaking occur... However one thing that has not changed is the mental capacity that kids at certain ages posess. What I think the real ANSWER is would be for the manufacturers to wake up and build a larger frame machine with the smaller engine class to power it. THAT more than anything would be a MAJOR improvement. Kids will have fun on anything. Witness the resurgence of the powered scooters. Nothing says they need to be able to fly through the air... and it keeps them off full size machines.
Making them take a safety course is good business. The really hard thing to do is find people willing and able to teach them in a reasonable amount of time. Here isn VA, it is hard to find enough instructors to teach...
#22
12-26-2007 | 05:57 PM
Trailblazer
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 62
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ATV age limit
I find it ridiculous that you have to ride an ATV 90cc or under if you're 15 or under. I had my KFX 80 since I was 11 and sold it the day after I turned 15. And I sold it late, I should have sold it when I was 13. Now I'm riding a Warrior and it's perfect for me. The law should atleast make it if you're over twelve you can ride a 200-250cc. Either way though it's experience that matter not your age.
#23
01-31-2008 | 08:46 PM
Pro Rider
Is old enough to know better, but too young to stop.
Is old enough to know better, but too young to stop.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,681
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From: Northern Virginia, near DC
ATV age limit
Ah yes... Youth... If it were so easy, don't you think it would have been taken care of by now? I come from a time where there were no rules when I was that young, and if you want to see injury stats out of this world, that would be the time. There are reasons for the rules. When you get to be our age, you will understand. Not that I disagree with your thoughts... just that it isn't an easy one to solve...
#24
02-01-2008 | 02:07 PM
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#26
02-14-2008 | 12:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
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ATV age limit
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: georged
From a fiscal impact point of view ATV tourists provide negligible revenue for Oregon businesses and the state when compared to traditional tourists who rent rooms, take all meals out at restaurants and also spend on attractions, licenses, etc. As an example, the Oregon lodging tax of 1% furnishes over $10M/yr in tax revenue from just motel/hotel/RV lodging. The visitor business revenue to generate just that tax revenue stream dwarfs visitor ATV family expenses who camp out (with or without a trailer).
I DON'T BUY THAT FOR A MINUTE. THERE IS NO WAY JO SIXPACK IN A STATION WAGON IS SPENDING MORE THAT JO RIDER WITH HIS FAMILY, TRUCK, CAMPER/HOTEL, KIDS, ATV'S, ETC, ETC, ETC....
The thread began with someone suggesting Oregonians write their elected reps to kill an ATV operator age limit bill. Then someone else jumped in with how Oregonians should stress to their reps the economic benefits of allowing children of all ages who visit Oregon to ride their ATVs with no restrictions.
Again, I don't care where or how people spend their leisure time. To make a statement that ATV visitor financial impact is of enough importance to kill legislation of age limitation for ATV riders is just plain ridiculous. Tax revenue from safety courses to license those ATVers without state driver licenses (from any state) would also dwarf groceries, pizza and gas expenditures by ATV visitors and residents.
TAXES FROM SAFETY COURSES WOULD DWARF ALL OTHER EXPENDITURES? PUT DOWN THE CRACK PIPE.
If Oregon was smart, and thanks to those who overstate their own individual importance this is a letter I will write, Oregon should be collecting a hefty registration tax on all out-of-state ATVers/dirt bikes who use Oregon facilities, as other states have done for years, and push ATV classes/licensing for Oregonians under state driver licensing age.</end quote></div>
YES, OREGON SHOULD DO EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO ELIMINATE THEIR ENTIRE TOURIST INDUSTRY. A GOOD START TO DISCOURAGE VISITORS IS TO MAKE IT AS EXPENSIVE AS POSSIBLE.
From a fiscal impact point of view ATV tourists provide negligible revenue for Oregon businesses and the state when compared to traditional tourists who rent rooms, take all meals out at restaurants and also spend on attractions, licenses, etc. As an example, the Oregon lodging tax of 1% furnishes over $10M/yr in tax revenue from just motel/hotel/RV lodging. The visitor business revenue to generate just that tax revenue stream dwarfs visitor ATV family expenses who camp out (with or without a trailer).
I DON'T BUY THAT FOR A MINUTE. THERE IS NO WAY JO SIXPACK IN A STATION WAGON IS SPENDING MORE THAT JO RIDER WITH HIS FAMILY, TRUCK, CAMPER/HOTEL, KIDS, ATV'S, ETC, ETC, ETC....
The thread began with someone suggesting Oregonians write their elected reps to kill an ATV operator age limit bill. Then someone else jumped in with how Oregonians should stress to their reps the economic benefits of allowing children of all ages who visit Oregon to ride their ATVs with no restrictions.
Again, I don't care where or how people spend their leisure time. To make a statement that ATV visitor financial impact is of enough importance to kill legislation of age limitation for ATV riders is just plain ridiculous. Tax revenue from safety courses to license those ATVers without state driver licenses (from any state) would also dwarf groceries, pizza and gas expenditures by ATV visitors and residents.
TAXES FROM SAFETY COURSES WOULD DWARF ALL OTHER EXPENDITURES? PUT DOWN THE CRACK PIPE.
If Oregon was smart, and thanks to those who overstate their own individual importance this is a letter I will write, Oregon should be collecting a hefty registration tax on all out-of-state ATVers/dirt bikes who use Oregon facilities, as other states have done for years, and push ATV classes/licensing for Oregonians under state driver licensing age.</end quote></div>
YES, OREGON SHOULD DO EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO ELIMINATE THEIR ENTIRE TOURIST INDUSTRY. A GOOD START TO DISCOURAGE VISITORS IS TO MAKE IT AS EXPENSIVE AS POSSIBLE.
#27
02-14-2008 | 06:19 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
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ATV age limit
The U of Mn did a study with the dnr here a few years ago and found significant impact from ATVers ,
They were talking in the milloins ,I personaly know of several places were it not for ATVers they would have had to close their doors ,,
And many small towns that welcome all the extra income that they provide especially during the slow tourist season of summer .
They were talking in the milloins ,I personaly know of several places were it not for ATVers they would have had to close their doors ,,
And many small towns that welcome all the extra income that they provide especially during the slow tourist season of summer .
#28
02-14-2008 | 08:40 PM
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ATV age limit
Why can't the government butt out and let the parents decide? Just another example of people willing to trade liberties for perceived security. Its an endless chain of precedent setting precedent until the people eventually revolt and we start all over.... Just like what has been happening since the beginning of time.
Maybe next they'll have an age cap! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img] ATV's have been around long enough now for lots of Boomers to be out riding and being a hazard for everybody else...
Maybe next they'll have an age cap! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img] ATV's have been around long enough now for lots of Boomers to be out riding and being a hazard for everybody else...
#29
02-26-2008 | 03:48 PM
Pro Rider
Is old enough to know better, but too young to stop.
Is old enough to know better, but too young to stop.
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,681
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From: Northern Virginia, near DC
ATV age limit
Because not all parents are capable of making good decisions. If you throw in the fact that in many cases, parents don't "Know" the dangers invovled, then the sympathetic crowd may be inclined to cut them a little slack. This is one area where I wish all manufacturers could take the lead. Honda has a lot of material available for parents to use that can help them make informed decisions on correct sizing of teh machine, doing a fair assessment of your child's reasoning ability and even riding tips. They do not pull any punches when they lay out the dangers either. Not all the others, especially the secondary markets do this. IF they did, then perhaps we could then start to think as you suggest. It just isn't so though... There has to be some formal guideline. Like it or not, we are a society with rules. Without them, it would be pure chaos. Most parents do not even know that they can ask for teh data, or know where to look to get it.
Reply to private post: You don't allow private replies..... So I put it here...
Nah, I am a big boy.. it takes a lot to get me riled up. I fully understand your position... I was there once. I guess I have mellowed with age.. or discovered that there are times when it is best to choose your battles. To be honest with you, there is no right or wrong answer. Some people reading these comments will be influenced by what we say.. others will not. the point is that both points of view can be presented.. and hope that the people reading it can make up their own minds.
I don't try to degrade anyone.. but like you, I try to make sure that both sides of the issue are represented. That way there is balance... If you read some of my comments from 4 years ago, You would swear it was a different person writing them.
I have come full circle on many of the issues. I am a big safety advocate, After breaking a leg, pulling a knee out of socket and crushing my ankle, and having to carry around about 3 lbs of steel in my leg to hold it all back together, I can attest to the merits of good safety gear, and using your head.
I also am vocal on behalf of kids. And their parents. Kids trust their parents to make decisions for them that are safe. I can't imagine a child thinking that their dad is capable of making a decision that would put them in harms way.
Unfortunately that isn't always the case. I for one don't want to be put in that position, and most parents I think would agree with that. The problem is that most parents can't think past where to put gas in it. they gas it up, get it running and go back in the house. Those are the ones that you read about in the paper when their kid gets killed.
Fear is a big factor too, and there are not too many children out there that can react in a predictable manner when put in a dangerous position. They need to be taught good habits from the start, and practice it religiously. Under parental supervision.
The bottom line is we all need to learn responsibility. Parents being parents comes with a price... acting responsibly, and making good decisions that can and may cost a child their life is a big one in my book. Does it mean I am against kids riing. No. But the caveat there is that I feel we as parents have a responibility to educate ourselves, and to protect the kids. If we don't then they should be doing something else.
Reply to private post: You don't allow private replies..... So I put it here...
Nah, I am a big boy.. it takes a lot to get me riled up. I fully understand your position... I was there once. I guess I have mellowed with age.. or discovered that there are times when it is best to choose your battles. To be honest with you, there is no right or wrong answer. Some people reading these comments will be influenced by what we say.. others will not. the point is that both points of view can be presented.. and hope that the people reading it can make up their own minds.
I don't try to degrade anyone.. but like you, I try to make sure that both sides of the issue are represented. That way there is balance... If you read some of my comments from 4 years ago, You would swear it was a different person writing them.
I have come full circle on many of the issues. I am a big safety advocate, After breaking a leg, pulling a knee out of socket and crushing my ankle, and having to carry around about 3 lbs of steel in my leg to hold it all back together, I can attest to the merits of good safety gear, and using your head.
I also am vocal on behalf of kids. And their parents. Kids trust their parents to make decisions for them that are safe. I can't imagine a child thinking that their dad is capable of making a decision that would put them in harms way.
Unfortunately that isn't always the case. I for one don't want to be put in that position, and most parents I think would agree with that. The problem is that most parents can't think past where to put gas in it. they gas it up, get it running and go back in the house. Those are the ones that you read about in the paper when their kid gets killed.
Fear is a big factor too, and there are not too many children out there that can react in a predictable manner when put in a dangerous position. They need to be taught good habits from the start, and practice it religiously. Under parental supervision.
The bottom line is we all need to learn responsibility. Parents being parents comes with a price... acting responsibly, and making good decisions that can and may cost a child their life is a big one in my book. Does it mean I am against kids riing. No. But the caveat there is that I feel we as parents have a responibility to educate ourselves, and to protect the kids. If we don't then they should be doing something else.
#30
02-26-2008 | 04:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,641
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ATV age limit
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Dragginbutt
Because not all parents are capable of making good decisions. If you throw in the fact that in many cases, parents don't "Know" the dangers invovled, then the sympathetic crowd may be inclined to cut them a little slack. This is one area where I wish all manufacturers could take the lead. Honda has a lot of material available for parents to use that can help them make informed decisions on correct sizing of teh machine, doing a fair assessment of your child's reasoning ability and even riding tips. They do not pull any punches when they lay out the dangers either. Not all the others, especially the secondary markets do this. IF they did, then perhaps we could then start to think as you suggest. It just isn't so though... There has to be some formal guideline. Like it or not, we are a society with rules. Without them, it would be pure chaos. Most parents do not even know that they can ask for teh data, or know where to look to get it.</end quote></div>
Spoken like a true liberal. Just what we need - more people pushing for a nanny state where Big Brother takes care of us and doesn't allow us to hurt ourselves or make any mistakes.
QUOTE "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good". Hilary Clinton
Because not all parents are capable of making good decisions. If you throw in the fact that in many cases, parents don't "Know" the dangers invovled, then the sympathetic crowd may be inclined to cut them a little slack. This is one area where I wish all manufacturers could take the lead. Honda has a lot of material available for parents to use that can help them make informed decisions on correct sizing of teh machine, doing a fair assessment of your child's reasoning ability and even riding tips. They do not pull any punches when they lay out the dangers either. Not all the others, especially the secondary markets do this. IF they did, then perhaps we could then start to think as you suggest. It just isn't so though... There has to be some formal guideline. Like it or not, we are a society with rules. Without them, it would be pure chaos. Most parents do not even know that they can ask for teh data, or know where to look to get it.</end quote></div>
Spoken like a true liberal. Just what we need - more people pushing for a nanny state where Big Brother takes care of us and doesn't allow us to hurt ourselves or make any mistakes.
QUOTE "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good". Hilary Clinton