I understand how you feel if you have never been in a union. Before I was in a union I had no idea what they were good for, or what workers rights were all about.

Have any idea where the minimum wage came from?

How about child labor laws?

These are a couple of workers rights that you and I have and there are many more that were fought for throughout history. In some trades, many mens lives were lost on the job due to unfair labor practices until the people organized and formed unions. Many if not all of our osha regulations are there because of injuries or deaths that have occurred on the job by people just trying to earn an honest living so they can support their family and enjoy a descent life.

The union dues I pay are worth every penny.

Twenty, I am not for being over taxed at all. I am for people being able to work at a job where they have rights and going home in one piece at the end of the day.

 

You are right, Unions have done a lot of good things in the way of protecting the work force. Thanks to their hard work, OSHA standards apply to all including non-union mills.

Let me give you a little example of how they have gotten too far off base.

At one of the local mills, a gentlemen, along with a female worker, proceeded to build themselves what some would call a "Love Shack" in one of the old shut down sections of the mill. Needless to say they (After several MONTHS), were caught in the act. This behavior was taking place during work hours (On the clock), and it was determined that between the materials used and the time it took to construct, that they had cost the company in the range of $12,000 (It was a heck of a "Love Shack", insulated, heated, stereo). Not to mention the money lost while using the Shack. Now the average person would say, "Goodbye, See Ya, So Long!", but not the Union. They fought for these two peoples jobs, for several months. It took several meetings, and hearings, countless man-hours and I would guess a fair amount of money to get these people removed from the employment of this mill. I fail to see how trying to keep these two people from loosing their jobs, benefited the work force, unless they were try to prevent injury to the employees who want to get there "Freak On" at their place of business.

A buddy of mine got a job at a local Aluminum Plant. After training on a cable winding machine, he was given the job. After the second night (Worked graveyard), the guys who had been working the other winders came to him and told him that he needed to slow it down. He (A NEW machine operator), was putting out to much production, and if he didn't slow it down, they would, one, have to explain why they weren't producing that much product all of the time, and two, they would have to increase their production, which meant they would have to work harder. So, from that point on, he would only run his machine for 2/3 of the time and spend the rest of his shift doing nothing. Oh by the way, he later lost his job because the mill closed down. Something to do with not being able to compete due to the high cost of production.

 

RPM, Another great response, Keep it up and you will soon be added to my very short list of hero's.

 

Unions have been benificial in the past. It does seem like now it is a way for some lazy people to skate by without pulling their fair share. There are some individuals that are top notch, but that is less of a norm. If they cannot govern their productivity, and the plant closes, how does that help the unions. Heck, the illegals will do the job for far less than minimum wage. And do a better job! (sorry to say).

 

Unfortunatly, these things do happen and the story gets out and gives the union a bad name. There are actions taken by some that should not be defended. On the other side of the coin, the same things go on in the non union shops, but when it happens, there is no group to blame, just the individual. I know for a fact that there are lazy non-union people. I would not say though that all non_union people are lazy, because there are some hard working ones also that deserve every penney they make and more.

At my job, we take pride in our work and what we do. I know a lot of hard workers that know the value of being in a union and would not have it any other way. Most of which have worked non-union previously.

Unless you have been in a union, you would be wrong to badmouth something you know very little about. I have walked in a non-union mans shoes. Have you walked in mine.

 

<FONT size=3>Andy Rooney</FONT>

 

bigugly,

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Union hater, I just think that they have lost sight of their purpose. That is to organize the work force and protect the workers from the dangers associated with their jobs.

This is NOT what they are doing these days. The Unions are trying to get rid of the "A Good days wage for a Hard days work." system that is what made this country strong in the world market. It's becoming a "Lets see what we can get for doing as little as we can." based system, and unfortunately, the employers are getting tired of not being able to compete against the lower cost, higher production, non-union companies.

I think Union workers are the best of the best. Unfortunately they are not being used to their full potential. Due to the Unions over involvement in the workplace, the "Lets see what we can get for doing as little as we can." mentality is hurting the companies, which in turn hurts the economy, which in return comes full circle and hurts the worker by way of plant shutdowns and businesses moving there manufacturing jobs out of our country.

The difference between the "Lazy" Union worker and the "Lazy" Non-Union worker, is that eventually the "Lazy" Non-Union worker will find themselves out of a job. Where as the "Lazy" Union worker has someone to fight to keep them "Lazy" and employed.

 

Is it possible that unions are perceived that way because some company's are continually piling more work on the workingmans plate and expecting him to do more with less? We have all heard of these scenerios from freinds and family who are known hard workers. Notice that I said some company's. I did not lump all companys into one group and speak badly of them.

At least we do agree on the fact that union workers are the best of the best. And I dont beleive we are doing to bad on the world trade market, in spite of the fact that union workers usually get paid a fair wage. The other countries in the world who are fairing well in the market also have a high percentage of union workers.

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: bigugly
What like China? Oh yeah, their unions are well known for their workers rights. I did enter the union back in 1982,(heavy equipment, earthmoving). This was a slow period in the economy and they never found me a job, but they wanted their dues. I split and found other similar work (because I know I do a good job). I have been working full time since, and am making more than my union couterparts.

 

Back in '79 there was an electrician's shop across the street from the place I worked. The economy was on it's butt and we were clinging to our jobs, cutting hours, etc. The electrician's union decides to go on strike. All these electricians were out there picketing because their 15 bucks an hour (remember this was in 1979) wasn't good enough. Well for the first time in 20 years good ol' Maxwell's Electric lost money, they closed the doors, and every one of them bastardos were out on the street with their strike picket in one hand and their you know what in the other. Lotta good it did em.