BigBlack, I think we are very close to the same page on this. I just cant believe that this kid (or the kid in your Scenario) did not know where they were going when they were running. I also ran from police in my early teens and put my self in harm's way a few time's. The police did not lead me to those places/situation's they followed me there. And like I said before I have 2 boy's and cant imagine what the parent's are going through. I would assume that the cops in this situation feel bad the way it ended also. This kid did decide to run on his own. Possibly because he knew his parents were not going to be pleased to find out he had taken the quad again!!! I just think that the kid is more responsible for the result than the police are. I think that is our only disagreement on this. Am I correct??

 

My scenario was fictional to try and illustrate my view here.

Ice is something that is very tricky and soft spots cannot be seen. As adults we know the dangers and would proceed on ice cautiously. This 14yr old I am sure never gave thought to the thin ice possibility. I am just saying that these cops have to use good professional judgment to stop when it’s appropriate. If major cities own police departments are creating policies to stop high speed pursuits for petty crimes then there must be a problem here.

I will quote a person who states it perfectly, Capt. Greg McCurdy of the L.A. Police Department (2003)

"We do not want to stifle police work, but we do want to make it clear to our officers that they will be held accountable to do the right thing"

This was a comment on their no pursuit policy for petty crimes.

The right thing to have done in this situation is to discontinue the chase, get the teenager another day.

 

My hind site is 20/20 also, I make great decisions after I've made a mistake. I just cant assume the police knew the out come of this situation any more than the kid did. If this kid had not ran when he was "red lighted" He would be alive now also.

Here is another scenario: This kid is allowed to run away by the police and later that day is riding thru his neighborhood and hit and kill's a 2yr old chasing a ball into the street. Now would the police be liable for that death because they let this kid go?

 

The police know the outcome of high speed chases typically lead to a crash unless the suspect gives up. They should also know the dangers of ice and the possibility of hypothermia. If they do not realize the two pre mentioned stats then they do not need guns or badges.

It has been shown that majority of the time when the chase is discontinued the suspect reduces their speed and aggressive maneuvers.

Therefore the cop should have made the decision that playing on this ice is statistically more deadly than letting this kid go.

Your scenario can happen even if the chase is productive and the suspect was caught, Unless they lock him up he could kill the same kid while sporting a brand new unlawful operation of an ATV ticket in his pocket.

 

I am not trying to shift the balme either. The kid was at faught which I have agreed on from the begining, I just feel there has to be better judgement from those trusted to "serve and PROTECT" as to when certain force is needed.

 

BigBlack,
I give up. You win. Congratulation's. I still dont agree with you (on this one point) (and the kid is still dead)but I give up. I am not going to convince you and you are not changing my mind either. I do however respect your opinion and your right to have it.

 

I just spoke with our justice studies instructor here at our college where I teach CIS and gave him the scenario as stated and he said the officers were wrong and could face charges given the info as stated above.

He said the most logical solution was for the ATV cops to abandon the pursuit when it reached the ice.

The car cop could have visited the store and asked about the kid who was probably a local and the store clerk could have most likely identified him and they could have safely driven to his home to issue the citations.

I am not trying to change anyone’s beliefs but when law enforcement agencies on their own are making changes we as citizens should realize the problems with high speed pursuits.

 

and the more cops let these things slip by, the more these idiots will think they can get away with it. Then, more people will see/complain, and the our sport gets an even bigger black eye because someone can't abide by the laws which are designed to "PROTECT AND TO SERVE".

We can disect this matter a thousand different ways and go no where. Obey the laws. It's the best policy.

 

I also stand FIRM with my decision that this entire incident is NOT the Police's fault and that they were indeed doing their job.

I dont know about Georgia,but Michigan law does NOT restrict officers from chases based on how major or minor a giving crime may be.If you RUN from a law enforcement officer and in the process,get injured or injure someone else,its YOUR fault,PERIOD!In fact,its a FELONY in Michigan to run,whether you are in a car/truck OR ATV,no matter how small the infraction may be!

I dont like your discreationary law that may find an officer at fault for an incident like the one that happened to this kid.The kid ran,he paid a severe price for it too.Cops just did their J.O.B!--We start letting folks run and not chasing them down,and pretty soon,everyone thinks they can have a field day with running because the cops wont chase them.And I GAUREENTEE you,this will not be good for society.

DONT RUN--and we dont have this conversation.

 

I am not saying let them get away with it. There are other investigative measures that could have been used here. Yes look for them find them and prosecute them but please use some professional judgment here. Once again when law agencies BY THEMSELFS are making policy changes then there obviously is a problem in existence with high speed pursuits.

Listen, I am just supporting what 1000’s of other LAW AGENCIES are saying who have dissected this issue with real stats and have decided there needs to be a change.

Put you self in the parent’s shoes and before the, “My Child would never…” crap begins just assume your perfect little teenager who does no wrong did decide this day to sneak the atv out and run from the cops. Do you honestly expect me to believe you would stand over your child’s grave a say, “Well you got what you deserve, I am thankful those officers did their job and got you and your atv off the streets you law breaking jerk.”

Come on there comes a time when certain issues need to be question and see if better solutions exist.

Would you whether the cops to abandon the chase and even give your teenager a temporary sense of “I am above the law mentality” to return to the store for identification and later arrive at your home to safely give your child his citation.

Let’s be logical here.