In another post, the topic of drinking and driving came up from an ATV/alcohol accident. Rather than fill his post with debates, I have started this one.

I think the question I truly wonder is when does a person have to take responsibility for their actions? My simple answer…at all times.

Here are few examples that I can come up with to relay my thoughts.

A person riding an ATV on an existing trail crosses onto "clearly posted" private property and gets caught. I believe this person is responsible for his actions. The same person in the same situation but he has been drinking. I believe that he is also responsible for his actions, even if his judgment has been compromised. He is responsible whether he would have trespassed with or without the alcohol.

As for examples with kids, I am a father. I know that there is an age (18) that a person can be held responsible for his actions but more kids under that age are committing adult crimes. To me, a child should be held responsible for their actions when they understand the consequences of their actions. Such as, a 3 year old finds a gun and kills himself. Is the child to blame? No. The child does not know the consequences of his actions. But at that age and mental capabilities, the child’s life and actions rest on the parent’s shoulders or the person watching the child. I know being a father that anything my son can get his hands on and play with he will. Whether it is a bottle of medicine, a loaded gun or even his mothers perfume bottle. It is my job as a parent to ensure a safe home life for my child.

In another post, I think in another forum, a person relayed their story of his kids and guns.
Basically, the family had guns in the house and used for sport in some way. Well, this father told his kids about guns and the dangers. To test his child, he intentionally left an UNLOADED gun on the nightstand. His child brought the gun to the father, or put it where is belongs, and told the father not to leave a gun out because his younger brother could find it. This is a responsible gun owner teaching his kids about gun safety, before it is too late.

How about a 13 year old who brings a gun to a school and kills a bunch of people. Is he responsible for his actions? Yes. There may be contributing factors, but the boy knew what the consequences are of pulling the trigger of a loaded gun while pointing it at another person. Ultimately the person pulling the trigger is committing the crime. They completed the act of pulling the trigger and aiming at another person.

What about an adult that does something perfectly legal which influences their judgment in the law and moral values? Are they too held responsible for their actions? If a person breaks the rules of the road, they are held responsible. Such as, if a person runs a stop sign and hits another car, they are at fault in the accident.

If the same person has been drinking they are still at fault in the accident. The effect of the alcohol does not shift blame or responsibility; it only becomes a contributing factor. And I don’t care how many contributing factor there are in any situation, a person is still responsible for their actions.

In these times, for what ever reason…people will find any excuse for their actions to lesson the responsibility.

 

Lasher

I have to agree with you. If everyone would take some responsibility for their own actions, there would be far less lawyers in this world.

 

LASHER,

I agree 110%!!!!! If people would take responsability for their actions we might not have so many do gooders trying to take our sport away from us. If people would take responsibility and not try to blame alcohol or drugs, guns, ATV's, or any other inanimate objects, and assume responsability for themselves the world would be a much better place. We would have true freedom and the lawyers would all be out of jobs, because no one would be suing someone else trying to get fast cash. We would have riding spots allover without the property owner worring about being sued for someone getting hurt due to their own poor judgement. The Government would not be trying to take our guns. And the ATV manufactures would be making more performance ATVs.

I'm stopping before I get mad, Danno

 

Holyman, now that we are moving the discussion to this thread upon request, let me address your post that was made in the "Drinking and riding don't mix" thread. At first I said that the gun owner was responsible and I strongly suggest you re-read all of my posts because I did not waiver, I maintained throughout my posts that the gun owner was responsible. And YES, the gun owner IS at fault. It was HE that left a loaded gun on the coffee table when he knew damn good and well there was a three year old in the house. There are laws on the books that children up to a certain age (I believe might be ten) are to have adult supervision. And there's a good reason for those laws. A three year old child doesn't know any better. Hence the reason it is against the law to leave a young child at home alone. But to hear you talk, that three year old child should know how to operate a gun, a motor vehicle, know the dangers of household poisons, etc. And if that child gets hurt, it's the CHILD'S fault for being so ignorant, NOT the parents fault. And that my friend, is a load of crap.

In regards to me jumping a quad and hurting myself, it doesn't matter how ignorant I may be, the maker of the quad should NOT be held accountable unless it was a defect in the quad, i.e. an improper weld or whatever.

When I was younger and took some of the chances that I did, it was NOT because of "at the time they seemed like good ideas." as you put it. I knew full well what the consequences were. But I was willing to take the risk. Which is fine and dandy, for I will continue to take risks that can hurt me. The only difference between then and now is back then I was selfish. Today I'm not going to take a risk that injure an innocent person.

If a person is smart enough to obtain a drivers license then they are smart enough to know the dangers of drinking and driving for that is addressed in the written test one must pass in order to obtain a drivers license.

You state "The rest of us know that drinking and driving kills and a truly responsible person would never do it. Now I hope you see where I'm coming from." Don't you get it, BOOZE IS NOT THE KILLER, it's the irresponsible act of the individual. People die day in and day out because some woman was putting on make up while driving, some man was trying to reach for his pen that fell to the floorboard in the back of the car. When deaths result occur as a direct result of these actions, who/what do we blame. Do we place the blame upon the make-up?.....the pen? I think NOT. Sure, the make-up and the pen was a CONTRIBUTING factor, but that's all it was. Just as BOOZE was just a CONTRIBUTING factor.

 

Danno....right on man, that's one of the major problems with this country today. Invidual responsibility has seem to of flown out the door. Hmmmmm, I just had an idea. I'm going to make my wife rich today. I do believe I'll go play out in the middle of a freeway today. And when I get hit by one or more cars, she can sue the heck out of the people driving. And for those deeper pockets, she can sue the makers of the automobiles that run into me. After all, it won't be MY fault that I got ran over.....RIGHT?

And for those of you that might not be too bright, I was being extremely sarcastic when talking about playing on the freeway.

 

I whole heartedly agree with the individual responsibility. There is definitely a problem in the society today.
FKNA I have a couple of questions on your last post… NOT A FLAME, just asking for clarification. I don’t think I get it with the “Just as BOOZE was just a CONTRIBUTING factor”. The make-up, the pen, all that is bad judgement on the part of the individual. Alcohol, however, impairs ones ability to judge any situation correctly. It diminishes your reflexes and your ability to think clearly cohesively. So, no one should drink and drive, no one should drink and shoot, ever. It’s not the alcohol’s fault, it’s the individuals fault for drinking it. You shouldn’t drive, ride or shoot because you act, think and function differently while drinking.
Don’t get mad if you disagree, this is the way I see it. This is the way the law sees it. I believe this is the way most people see it.
I don’t post a lot, but I had to ring in on this one.

I just read the drinking and riding post. I realize you and I have a different opinion here, I could have just erased this post, so as not to start anything. But I’ll leave it for others to read. Please no one reply to me here, wont post in this thread again.

 

Hey, remember, it's not the all the lawyers we want out of jobs! It's only the sleezy ones. If there were no lawyers, how would you buy your house? How would you get advice on some important issues? How would you make a will, you know will be valid? When you need your social security money early, how would you get it without a lawyer? If you are in a bad marriage, and you need out, how would you get out of it, without a lawyer?

So, remember, it's not all of the lawyers, just the sleezy ones, who are low enough to except bad cases, or cases just so people can wrongly win lots of money, they don't deserve.

 

I agree with personal responsibility, people have to be accountable for their actions.

Here something that bothers me:

Where do we draw the line on saftey?
At what cost$ do we continue to pursue saftey?
Stupid people do and will continue to do stupid things. Don't get me wrong I do believe in saftey, but I think we take it to far. Some people are obessed with safety and believe they are the (saftey police) of everyone else. People die and get hurt, thats the facts of life. When one person gets hurt, maybe for doing something stupid or lack of common sense, immediately the Saftey Police are there, looking for ways to prevent this from happening again. Please don't get me wrong alot of good comes out of that. What concerns me is when it gets ridiculous.
Hypothetical Example:
Lets say there are a 10,000 staplers in the USA. 5 people have gotten injured
1 dies do to choking after stapling his lips shut.
2 injured do to a hard hit and pinching fingers.
2 injured do to having it thrown at them.
The cost of the stapler is $10.00. The Saftey Police arrive and issue a recall. They decide to put guards and stickers on it. Now that stapler will cost $12.00. Maybe the guards and stickers will help. But why should we all have to pay for it ? How much are we paying for ridiculous saftey? There are dangers in everything we do.
Racing, Riding, Driving, shooting etc...
As humans (young&old) we strive to the extreme.
Accidents Happen and no matter what you ban or how much saftey you put into it they will still happen.
Lets use common sense to new regulations on saftey and not penalize the majority.
I hope I was able to articulate my thoughts into words properly.
Atv's Rule

 

I agree that there is a place for attorneys in this world, but, with all the frivolous lawsuits it makes it hard to remember that there is a place for them. I even have a freind that is a lawyer and I guess she is one of the good ones.

I just wish more people would take responsability for their actions!!!

Danno

 

BLH, the only thing you will ever start with me is just a friendly discussion.

Anyway, in regards to my statement about booze just being a contributing factor, it was a contributing factor in the sense it did impair the persons judgement. Just as reaching the back seat for that pen impaired ones judgement how far they were behind the car in front of me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying alcohol doesn't impair ones judegement. Depending on ones alcohol tolerance, as little as half a drink could have drastic consequences. Since the begining of all of my posts, the only point I have tried to make is that it's ultimately individuals fault when the individual willingly takes on these other contributing factors. i.e. drinking, putting on make-up, looking through their glove box, etc.