We were talking about 4 wheelers but if children & others were to get killed at the rate that 3 wheelers were taking lives then we could compare, see? 4 wheelers are a different animal, bad comparison period.

Uh snomobiles are a dying breed because you need..................snow.............Also 4 wheelers aren't helping their cause

4 wheelers are here to stay & you will only win this debate when they go the way of Sadams sons. Ain't gona happen.

 

thats was sweet i cant wait for this weekend !!!!!

 

Safety Sean....... 3 things I will will go out on a limb about....

1. YOU ARE TOTALLY ****( Friends tell me I am too, so it is not a put down)
2. You would not have fun riding with about 95% of the people on here.
3. You are commited to your cause.

Please dont take offense to these. Just observations!!!!

Hey...put on some cut-off blue jean shorts, load the family up and hang loose bud.....if we fight so much in what we think is right....you will miss the good times in life.....live life unscripted!

 

Can I put in my 2 cents? I am anyway.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
SafetySean has some good points and okiedude may be correct in his observations, BUT Grizz did say to keep quiet if you didn't like the video.
Safetysean should have started his own thread on this subject. I would be curious if okiedude is correct in his #2 observation.
What do you think, Safetysean? Start a new thread?

 

Where is the love?? Group Hug for SafetySean...... LOL j/k

Yeah, in a way there is valid points each way. I dont think riding in the stream or river hurt anything, as they were basically just riding through, not tearing the bottom all up. If it was done constantly with alot of ATV's doing it, and tearing up the bottom, etc,,, then that would be more of a concern. I enjoy riding in water or mud at times. Sean is right in one thing though, anyone against ATV's will use this kind of thing to fire up as many people as possible and turn them against ATVer's, telling them that all drivers are the same, destructive types, making it look and sound as bad as possible. Theres already enough complaining now. I think now though, most complaints come from landowners when Atvs go off the marked trails and tear around where they shouldnt be on their land. If the rivers or streams are on private property or on the trail,,,, I dont think its a problem. Everyone has had valid points or opinons here, and stupid as it sounds,, I dont think anyone is wrong. Everyone likes things for different reasons, and has different tastes...... if that weren't true, we could all be married to the same woman...........lol imagine that. In this case I think we just have to agree to disagree. We all enjoy our atvs and riding them......... thats all we need to concentrate on.

Rob

 

LMFAO! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

Unfortunately I feel it is SafetySean that will have the last laugh, only he won’t really be laughing as he is an ATV rider (albeit a responsible one) just like the rest of us.

I have seen first hand the results of what happens when off road riders don’t respect the land and concerns of other people (i.e. property owners and others, specifically non-ATV owners). Have any of you heard of the Blackwater 100? It was a very popular annual off-road extravaganza nearby here in WV that was last held in 1993. You can do a search on the Internet for it and still find info about it (and pictures too). Environmentalists gathered enough momentum to have it shut down. I think the primary cause of concern was the damage that was caused by running vehicles through the wetlands.

It’s not necessarily the running over of poor hapless creatures that is the real issue, it is the silt generated by tires churning through the muck which can be hazardous to fish (en masse) and other aquatic organisms. Even in my local area a section of private property that was used by an off-road riding motorcycle club got shut down over complaints by some “group” of people with a voice, concerned about erosion on a creek bank and the resultant silt generation during a rain (or when dirt bikers are churning across the creek on a regular basis). Note that dirt bikers only stir up a fraction of the silt in crossing a creek than what a 4WD ATV does churning up and down the same creek.

Now I like to play in the mud too, and natural stream / creek crossings are a heck of a lot more fun than crossing over a bridge (and I’m seeing more and more bridges going up where there used to be a fording through the water). It’s one thing to play in a mud puddle that is temporary and isolated to a trail that may have been the result of a recent downpour. There probably aren’t many creatures (if any) living in it and any stirred up silt isn’t going anywhere.

It is a completely different story though if we are dealing with a stream, river, pond, marsh or lake (something more permanent which may very likely support quite an ecosystem of life). A lone ATV making a gentle crossing through something like this certainly isn’t going to do much damage at all. Increase the number of ATVs (where stirred up sediments don’t have a chance to settle) or repeated aggressive riding though such an area creates much more of an issue.

There are some people (hopefully in the minority) that we will never be able to please. The sight of a rut on a trail (which IMO really doesn’t hurt anything), the sight of a tire tread mark or even the sound of motorized traffic from anywhere within earshot (no matter how far away) from wherever they may be walking / hiking is so repulsive to them. However irresponsible behavior will turn many more people against us, people that previously may not have had an opinion or care as to what we were doing and that is not good for our sport.

Did I like the video? Sure, it was great (as a video production goes), although I personally would prefer to hear more of the engines at work and less of the music, that way one might better get the sensation of being part of the action. However I fear it is only a matter of time before that video will also be found or referenced on other web sites that may be dedicated to the cause of restricting or banning ATV use altogether.

Remember, just because you have an ATV it does not give you the right to ride anytime or anywhere that you please in any manner that you want to. No more than the fact that I own a motorcycle capable of tripling the speed limit on the highway does it give me the right to drive it that fast. To do something that we would like to do (assuming it’s not already against the law) one should first consider the consequences of our actions, especially if it affects others or involves property that is not our own.

Responsible actions may get recognition after a period of time by the majority, perhaps having a long term effect of keeping our trails open or better yet legally expanding our network of trails. However irresponsible actions will almost certainly be quickly noted and likely remembered for a long time. People who are upset tend to do something about it and the resultant reaction may have a long term or even permanent (negative) impact on the sport that we all love.

If you are still a non-believer just try a Yahoo or Google search of "ATV damage" or just the three words ATV damage silt or the two words ATV noise. You will see that others are noticing and in some cases action is being taken in an effort to curtail the "problem"...

 

^^ Very well said.

 

Okiedude...a response to your observations -

1. Yea I am pretty **** about some things, but its not my fault - I was raised by a schoolteacher and an accountant. And no its not a bad thing.
2. Would I have fun riding with 95% of the people on this forum? I would have to say yes because I think that there are a lot of good people on this forum. Differences in opinion are not bad things, thats how people learn and progress. And just because people don't always agree doesn't mean that they are bad people per se, they just have different ideas.
3. Am I commtted to what I believe in - yes. That goes for whatever I believe is right. But that doesn't mean that I am always right in what I believe.

Opinions are like a$$holes - everybody has one and they are all different.

Should I have started another thread since it was stated that if you don't like it do not say anything. No I don't think so. If something is put out then it is there and you can't tell people to not comment...that is trying to restrict freedom of speech and I know you American dudes would never attempt to restrict someone from speaking their mind. Geez, next thing you would be trying to restrict the right to bear arms.

Anyway I still feel that my message should be considered and people should think about the big picture when it comes to not only protecting the environment but also protecting your riding areas and opportunities.

Oh yea, someone asked earlier for me to be specific in what actual damage is being done to aquatic environments in the video. Since I'm not from the area I can't be specific as I am unfamiliar with what is in that river or its banks.

And no Okie I am not affended. You probably realize by now that I have a thick skin so it really takes a lot to offend or even upset me.

 

When I said, "Holla back if you like it otherwise keep quiet. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] ", it was meant as a joke. No one's going to hurt my feelings by giving me their opinion. Will it change my mind? Uh... No! We don't make a habit of leaving garbage when we ride and we aren't leaving a trail of dead fish and frogs in our wake.

I think in a way SafteySean agrees with us... I just think he should turn his attention towards the real problem; the "eco-freaks" and the death of common sense.

Keep em' coming!