Hello all,
here's a stumper for you to knock heads about...
got a '01 Scrambler 500 4x4 back in jan, had to replace the 2 front shafts due to they kept popping out of the cv joint (well the right one anyway). they both didnt have the little c clip that kept the shaft from coming out of the cv joint, in fact the little groove on the end of each shaft had been worn off, thus leading to replacement. the 4x4 did work on both sides at this point before replacement.

bought 2 full shafts with cv joint off of ebay, brand new, same exact shafts, unopened in box.

when i replaced the left side, no problem, everything went together smooth as silk.

when i replaced the right side (the side that was popping out), when i put the a-arm back on the cv joint was not going into the seal on the inner "bowl" part of the strut...like the shaft was too short, about 1/2 to 3/4 inches too short. when i tightened up the end nut on the end of the cv half shaft it would suck the cv joint in JUST enough to keep the diff fluid from leaking out. ALL THIS I KNOW NOW!

about 6 weeks ago i really wanted to go for a ride w/my son and i had just replaced the shafts and noticed the diff fluid was leaking from the right side because i hadnt tightened the end nut up enough for it to suck in the cv joint into the "bowl" seal, so in a hurry i tightend it up real good, too good, and of course the 4x4 didnt work on that side which i figured was due to overtightening. filled it up with diff fluid and we went on our ride (about 4 hours) and the next time i got a chance i opened up the hub to see if i could figure out why the cvjoint wasnt going into the seal, and as you guessed it the fluid was mostly gone and it was full of little chips (like sparkles) of metal. The 3 armature plate "nubs" were squashed, and the end of the hillard clutch that was next to it was all scraped up, as well as metal seal that protects the magnetic coil, this not so bad though.

ok, lesson learned i thought and i got a used hillard clutch on ebay and new armature plate and after cleaning everything really good, installed them today and torqued it to the correct ft/lbs, which again BARELY makes the cv joint go into the seal, but enough not to leak. filled it with diff fluid AND..... no 4x4 on the right side.
i also got another a-arm but when i replaced the old one it did not make any difference in letting the cv joint suck into the seal on the strut. i thought maybe the a-arm was bent or something and not letting the strut swing closer to the shaft.

sooooooooooooooooo....what is wrong? either the shaft is too short, which i dont understand how it is since the left side is fine, or the a-arm is not letting the strut get close enough for the cv joint to completely sink into the seal of the strut, like it does on the left side.

and why isnt the 4x4 working? i tested the coil and it attracts the new armature plate really well so i dont think i damaged it.

ive read many many threads but havent found this problem posted before so i think this'll be one for the books!

thanks in advance,
dave in maine

 

First are you using hub fluid or differential fluid? It should be on demand hub fluid. Next, is it posible the frame or strut tower is bent? Are the ball joints bad and keeping the strut housing away from the front shaft? Did you tighten the hub with the drive shaft in the CV? How were the bearings and races in the hub?

 

I would say something is bent somewhere!!!!!!!!!
Do some measure and go from there!!!...Caper.....

 

First are you using hub fluid or differential fluid? demand drive fluid[/b]

Next, is it posible the frame or strut tower is bent? possible i guess, the strut tower seems pretty rigid ya know, feels like it would more likely break than bend, but the frame could be...how do i check? is that a dealer thing?

Are the ball joints bad and keeping the strut housing away from the front shaft? the ball joint moves freely and does not look bent, how do they "go bad"?

Did you tighten the hub with the drive shaft in the CV? yes, isnt that right?


How were the bearings and races in the hub? like i said the hillard clutch was a little chewed and there were flecks of metal all over, but i cleaned them out REALLY good, and the clutch was replaced with a used one.

i'm thinking you're right about the bent strut tho. if the old shafts didnt have the c clip to hold the cv joint to the shaft then it could move as much as needed to seat correctly into the "bowl" of the strut and you wouldnt notice a problem.

the only other thing would be the "ears" on the frame that the a-arm is bolted to, maybe the front is bent slightly, but doesnt look like it.

thanks for the input, at least i know i'm not going crazy!

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: manomako
First are you using hub fluid or differential fluid? demand drive fluid[/b]
Next, is it posible the frame or strut tower is bent? possible i guess, the strut tower seems pretty rigid ya know, feels like it would more likely break than bend, but the frame could be...how do i check? is that a dealer thing?<U>You may want to pull the plastics off and compare to the other side.
</U>Are the ball joints bad and keeping the strut housing away from the front shaft? the ball joint moves freely and does not look bent, how do they "go bad"?<U>The ball joints on the bottom of the strut housing should not have any play. They may be shot</U>.
Did you tighten the hub with the drive shaft in the CV? yes, isnt that right?<U>I would try to tighten it up without the shaft in place to see if the shaft is keeping the CV from seating in the strut housing.
</U>How were the bearings and races in the hub? like i said the hillard clutch was a little chewed and there were flecks of metal all over, but i cleaned them out REALLY good, and the clutch was replaced with a used one.<U>I was just wondering if there maybe be exsessive play in the bearings that may cause some trouble for you.
</U>i'm thinking you're right about the bent strut tho. if the old shafts didnt have the c clip to hold the cv joint to the shaft then it could move as much as needed to seat correctly into the "bowl" of the strut and you wouldnt notice a problem.the only other thing would be the "ears" on the frame that the a-arm is bolted to, maybe the front is bent slightly, but doesnt look like it.thanks for the input, at least i know i'm not going crazy<U>! Make sure to let us know if you figure it out[/</U>q]

 

Bad Ball Joint Photos

 

good ideas big blue.

especially seating the cv joint w/o the shaft connected. i'm pretty sure it will because i remember when i installed the new shaft it went in all the way, but its easy enough to check again, so i will. so the question is, is the shaft keeping the cv joint from seating or is the a-arm or strut keeping it? i think i ruled out the a-arm and the shaft since they are identical to the left side, so a close inspection of the strut assemblies is in order.
i just found a used strut on ebay for $15 so i thought what the hell, a cheap diagnostic way to see if the strut is bent.

the pics were great too. did yours just pop out while riding?

i'll keep you updated, wont be able to tear into it prob til next week. been fighting off last bit of a cold and working this weekend.

thanks again, great to have different perspectives!

 

Those photos are from a buddy of mine that is also a member of this site, ScramblerXrated.

 

Mystery solved!!
we had some awesome weather this past weekend and i was able to get a cheap strut assembly off ebay and switched it out with the old one and KABLAM! problem solved!
it was unbelievable, i would have never guessed it was a bent strut but something must have happened at some point.

when i got it i had to replace the two front shafts because there were no c-clips on the end of the shafts to keep them from popping out...do you think that might have allowed the strut to travel farther than it should have and bend? weird huh?

anyway, at least it wasnt a bent frame mount, that would have sucked!

pray for no rain!!
dave in maine