Why buy American
#51
06-03-2005, 11:30 PM
Why buy American
As a long time business owner, I really try to have a solid understanding of macro and micro-economics. Lets face it, the global economy is where it's at. Many people look at the loss of manufacturing jobs as a huge negative. It isn't. It is simply another step in the evolution of our incredible economy. Historically, people always preach the doom and gloom of change. Is it really a bad thing that there are fewer family farms? Of course not...We have developed very efficient ways to produce more with less.
Our jobless rate is only 5.1%. Yet...we keep losing jobs...or at least the media says we do. In reality, we simply change with the times. People do different jobs. They grow and prosper. The standard of living keeps getting better and better every generation. People in "poverty" have cars, TVs, DVD players, video games, and many other luxuries.
If we lose jobs, whether manufacturing or even customer service, better jobs will develop and replace them. Consumers should by products that give them the best value for their money regardless of origin. That is what keeps our economy strong even through crisis like 9/11. Our unemployment rate during this past "recession" was still far lower than France and Germany during these times.
Where American companies fail is in the Global marketing arena. We don't do a good enough job of penetrating emerging markets. However, many are doing much better. We still produce excellent products, particularly in technology.
Oh well...I will just keep driving my Honda that was built in Ohio and my Armada that was built in Missippi and watch others drive their Ford Focuses that were built in Mexico or the GTO built in Australia :-)
Our jobless rate is only 5.1%. Yet...we keep losing jobs...or at least the media says we do. In reality, we simply change with the times. People do different jobs. They grow and prosper. The standard of living keeps getting better and better every generation. People in "poverty" have cars, TVs, DVD players, video games, and many other luxuries.
If we lose jobs, whether manufacturing or even customer service, better jobs will develop and replace them. Consumers should by products that give them the best value for their money regardless of origin. That is what keeps our economy strong even through crisis like 9/11. Our unemployment rate during this past "recession" was still far lower than France and Germany during these times.
Where American companies fail is in the Global marketing arena. We don't do a good enough job of penetrating emerging markets. However, many are doing much better. We still produce excellent products, particularly in technology.
Oh well...I will just keep driving my Honda that was built in Ohio and my Armada that was built in Missippi and watch others drive their Ford Focuses that were built in Mexico or the GTO built in Australia :-)
#52
06-03-2005, 11:50 PM
#53
06-04-2005, 12:00 AM
Why buy American
That is exactly what I said...we fail at penetrating foriegn markets.
I also don't think the government does business any favors. Government should help our companies penetrate those markets by keeping a level playing field.
But, just as our money flows out, it comes back in the form of investment in our stock markets, building automobile plants, and other manufacturing. Plus, think about how many foriegn students are educated in our universities. But, as a consumer driven economy, we will always have a trade deficit.
Bryce, I didn't say anything about being a genious but thanks for the implication :-)
I also don't think the government does business any favors. Government should help our companies penetrate those markets by keeping a level playing field.
But, just as our money flows out, it comes back in the form of investment in our stock markets, building automobile plants, and other manufacturing. Plus, think about how many foriegn students are educated in our universities. But, as a consumer driven economy, we will always have a trade deficit.
Bryce, I didn't say anything about being a genious but thanks for the implication :-)
#54
06-04-2005, 12:26 AM
Why buy American
That is exactly what I said...we fail at penetrating foriegn markets
I also don't think the government does business any favors. Government should help our companies penetrate those markets by keeping a level playing field
But, just as our money flows out, it comes back in the form of investment in our stock markets, building automobile plants, and other manufacturing. Plus, think about how many foriegn students are educated in our universities. But, as a consumer driven economy, we will always have a trade deficit.
Bryce, I didn't say anything about being a genious but thanks for the implication
BryceGTX
#55
06-04-2005, 01:09 AM
Why buy American
We obviously can't survive as isolationists. The global economy is very real and must either be embraced or we can be left in the cold.
It seems that you are focusing most of your discussion on the auto industry. Yes, in fact we do have a huge trade deficit in automobiles. It has little to do with lobbyists. That is a greatly over simplified. Ford owns Mazda, Volvo, and Jaguar, GM owns Saab, and then there is Diamler-Chrysler. You think that our companies aren't working toward a global economy. Beleive me, If any of the big 3 could buy Toyota, they would be all over it. Why? They build phenominal quality vehicles that people want.
All of these companies are trying to penetrate China, India, and many other emerging economies.
Of course people lose when jobs go over seas. At the same time, companies like Toyota, Honda, BMW, Hyundai, and others get great jobs. This is evolution of the industry. It forces the big 3 to build higher quality while reducing expense. This means overpaid workers and management. I have been through numerous mergers while working in the corporate world. During several, I left the comapny because I knew downsizing would occur. The great thing about this country is that ANYONE can thrive.
Since we are capitalists, everyone wants into our market. If you have a good product, good management, and good marketing you will succeed regardless of origin.
Now, if we become isolationists, the world will leave us behind. Instead, we can continue our path of an evolving economy and workforce and thrive as a leader in technology. Let the Chinese copy our old technology and sell it to us cheaper. It is far better to evolve into a more advanced workforce giving our workers better, safer, and more rewarding jobs. To do this, we have to get out of this old fashioned attitude that we are being over taken. That same antiquated thinking has been around for 35 years ands has been proven wrong.
I own 2 businesses, Wireless 101 a retail and direct B2B Nextel, Cingular, and CellularOne dealer and Home Theater Pro a custom home theater, home automation, and structured wiring company. Obviously, I sell a mix of American and foriegn made products. I sell almost exclusively Asian made accessories. Why, because American companies are not competitive in quality or price. When I sell inexpensive pieces, I make considerably more money than the supplier plus, I keep the money in our economy other than a small percentage. Additionally, people have more money to spend or invest.
In the Home Theater business, we sell mostly Canadian made speakers and the high end electronics come from a myriad of sources. But, I sell high quality which is in demand. Again, I keep most of the money in our economy. Remember, we are a consumer based economy. Inexpensive forien products HELP our economy to thrive.
Yes, I am analytical (my wife just says ****). But, I also have a lot of real world experience and I do think it is OK to buy products that give us the best value for our money. It certainly gives me more to invest and buy toys with.
It seems that you are focusing most of your discussion on the auto industry. Yes, in fact we do have a huge trade deficit in automobiles. It has little to do with lobbyists. That is a greatly over simplified. Ford owns Mazda, Volvo, and Jaguar, GM owns Saab, and then there is Diamler-Chrysler. You think that our companies aren't working toward a global economy. Beleive me, If any of the big 3 could buy Toyota, they would be all over it. Why? They build phenominal quality vehicles that people want.
All of these companies are trying to penetrate China, India, and many other emerging economies.
Of course people lose when jobs go over seas. At the same time, companies like Toyota, Honda, BMW, Hyundai, and others get great jobs. This is evolution of the industry. It forces the big 3 to build higher quality while reducing expense. This means overpaid workers and management. I have been through numerous mergers while working in the corporate world. During several, I left the comapny because I knew downsizing would occur. The great thing about this country is that ANYONE can thrive.
Since we are capitalists, everyone wants into our market. If you have a good product, good management, and good marketing you will succeed regardless of origin.
Now, if we become isolationists, the world will leave us behind. Instead, we can continue our path of an evolving economy and workforce and thrive as a leader in technology. Let the Chinese copy our old technology and sell it to us cheaper. It is far better to evolve into a more advanced workforce giving our workers better, safer, and more rewarding jobs. To do this, we have to get out of this old fashioned attitude that we are being over taken. That same antiquated thinking has been around for 35 years ands has been proven wrong.
I own 2 businesses, Wireless 101 a retail and direct B2B Nextel, Cingular, and CellularOne dealer and Home Theater Pro a custom home theater, home automation, and structured wiring company. Obviously, I sell a mix of American and foriegn made products. I sell almost exclusively Asian made accessories. Why, because American companies are not competitive in quality or price. When I sell inexpensive pieces, I make considerably more money than the supplier plus, I keep the money in our economy other than a small percentage. Additionally, people have more money to spend or invest.
In the Home Theater business, we sell mostly Canadian made speakers and the high end electronics come from a myriad of sources. But, I sell high quality which is in demand. Again, I keep most of the money in our economy. Remember, we are a consumer based economy. Inexpensive forien products HELP our economy to thrive.
Yes, I am analytical (my wife just says ****). But, I also have a lot of real world experience and I do think it is OK to buy products that give us the best value for our money. It certainly gives me more to invest and buy toys with.
#56
06-04-2005, 02:22 AM
Why buy American
I am not advocating isolationism at all. Quite the contrary, the largest growing markets in the world are in the asian countries. So it seems only logical for US companies to expand into these markets. Clearly any US company epanding into a foriegn market is good for the US company and good for us. Profits flow from that market back to us thereby redicing the trade deficit. On the other hand, profits from the sales of off-shore companies flow over seas increasing the trade deficit. I don't see any benifit to that.
There appears to be no benifit to trading a job at a US company for a job at a foreign manufacturer. This simply trades a higher paid, better benifits job for a cheaper job that the foreign manufactuer enjoys. It might be initially great for the consumer, because the foreign manufactuer can offer cheaper products. However, it is at the expense of the US company and the US worker. This I take exception to. GM has to add $1600 dollars to a car to pay for these benifits. However, the off-shore companies do not have this expense. The net result is that this effect decreases the standard of living for the US worker, because now he has to make concessions to keep the company profitable. There is no logical argument that can possibly be presented that provides the US worker with a higher standard of living. Good grief, look at what is happening in the US work place. US workers are paying more out of pocket for all their benifits. Ultimately the end result is that all US jobs will become these lower paying jobs forced on us by foreign manufacturers. So there is no increase in the standard of living.
I am quite suprised you are bringing up this isolationist idea. Just because someone suggests to buy US does in no way suggest isolationism. It only suggests a sense of patriotism. I think you are on the wrong path here. And your idea of the US workforce becoming a much more advanced workforce ignores the fact that there are too many other people in the US that are not in yours and my shoes where they can easily move laterally in the workforce with little or no impact on their salary or benifits. Once again, this is an economists view, but not a realistic view.
Your point about selling only Asian made electronics is a reality that we have to live with. Our consumer electronics manufacturing capability has been lost to the Asian countries because it was cheaper to manufacture in China. I no way view this as an advacement in our manufacturing prowness. Quite the contrary, it would have been more interesting to find a way to manufacture these items through a mechanism other than cheap physical labor. Now these countries that build these consumer electronics will apply those unique manufacturing techniques to reduce their costs! They are quite equiped to do this because they are young manufacturers.
I would say we are becoming a service based economy, not a consumer based economy and I think that very few economists would disagree with that assessment. This means that we have less and less manufacturing jobs and more and more service jobs like mowing lawns, building homes, selling off-shore products, shipping, waitressing, nursing... Unfortuneately, not all these jobs are high paying jobs and many of the people that had higher paying manufacturing jobs are now forced into these jobs.
Your last statement; however, is the least logical though. That you could possibly think that buying an off-shore product somehow is benificial to the US economy. Since you are so far away from manufacturing, you are so divorced from what is going on in the real work place that you don't see that real live people are actually paying for your "best value for your money".
BryceGTX
There appears to be no benifit to trading a job at a US company for a job at a foreign manufacturer. This simply trades a higher paid, better benifits job for a cheaper job that the foreign manufactuer enjoys. It might be initially great for the consumer, because the foreign manufactuer can offer cheaper products. However, it is at the expense of the US company and the US worker. This I take exception to. GM has to add $1600 dollars to a car to pay for these benifits. However, the off-shore companies do not have this expense. The net result is that this effect decreases the standard of living for the US worker, because now he has to make concessions to keep the company profitable. There is no logical argument that can possibly be presented that provides the US worker with a higher standard of living. Good grief, look at what is happening in the US work place. US workers are paying more out of pocket for all their benifits. Ultimately the end result is that all US jobs will become these lower paying jobs forced on us by foreign manufacturers. So there is no increase in the standard of living.
I am quite suprised you are bringing up this isolationist idea. Just because someone suggests to buy US does in no way suggest isolationism. It only suggests a sense of patriotism. I think you are on the wrong path here. And your idea of the US workforce becoming a much more advanced workforce ignores the fact that there are too many other people in the US that are not in yours and my shoes where they can easily move laterally in the workforce with little or no impact on their salary or benifits. Once again, this is an economists view, but not a realistic view.
Your point about selling only Asian made electronics is a reality that we have to live with. Our consumer electronics manufacturing capability has been lost to the Asian countries because it was cheaper to manufacture in China. I no way view this as an advacement in our manufacturing prowness. Quite the contrary, it would have been more interesting to find a way to manufacture these items through a mechanism other than cheap physical labor. Now these countries that build these consumer electronics will apply those unique manufacturing techniques to reduce their costs! They are quite equiped to do this because they are young manufacturers.
I would say we are becoming a service based economy, not a consumer based economy and I think that very few economists would disagree with that assessment. This means that we have less and less manufacturing jobs and more and more service jobs like mowing lawns, building homes, selling off-shore products, shipping, waitressing, nursing... Unfortuneately, not all these jobs are high paying jobs and many of the people that had higher paying manufacturing jobs are now forced into these jobs.
Your last statement; however, is the least logical though. That you could possibly think that buying an off-shore product somehow is benificial to the US economy. Since you are so far away from manufacturing, you are so divorced from what is going on in the real work place that you don't see that real live people are actually paying for your "best value for your money".
BryceGTX
#58
06-04-2005, 12:18 PM
Why buy American
I am not advocating isolationism at all. Quite the contrary, the largest growing markets in the world are in the asian countries. So it seems only logical for US companies to expand into these markets. Clearly any US company epanding into a foriegn market is good for the US company and good for us. Profits flow from that market back to us thereby redicing the trade deficit. On the other hand, profits from the sales of off-shore companies flow over seas increasing the trade deficit. I don't see any benifit to that.
You wrote a condradictory opinion here and I don't quite know where you were going. I guess you are trying to make the same point I made about needing to step it up in other markets
There appears to be no benifit to trading a job at a US company for a job at a foreign manufacturer. This simply trades a higher paid, better benifits job for a cheaper job that the foreign manufactuer enjoys. It might be initially great for the consumer, because the foreign manufactuer can offer cheaper products. However, it is at the expense of the US company and the US worker. This I take exception to. GM has to add $1600 dollars to a car to pay for these benifits. However, the off-shore companies do not have this expense. The net result is that this effect decreases the standard of living for the US worker, because now he has to make concessions to keep the company profitable. There is no logical argument that can possibly be presented that provides the US worker with a higher standard of living. Good grief, look at what is happening in the US work place. US workers are paying more out of pocket for all their benifits. Ultimately the end result is that all US jobs will become these lower paying jobs forced on us by foreign manufacturers. So there is no increase in the standard of living.
Historically, when an industry in the US shrinks or goes away, it is replaced with better higher tech industry. Withregard to the car industry. No one is "taking" our jobs. Our industry is slow moving and over bloated. They don't build vehicles (other than trucks) that are as competitive. Take a Toyota Camry for example...It is more expensive than say a Pontiac Grand Prix, Ford Tauras, or whatever. The Toyota still out sells all of the others. While American car companies are getting brow beaten by the unions, the imports continue to improve quality and desirability. I know it will be different in Michigan, but here, people line up to work at the Toyota Camry plant. We also have 2 other major Ford plants as well. This action causes greater competition and inovation. It may also cause people to get out and do their own thing, creating their own standard of living.
Regarding benefits and such, it goes along with what I was saying. The American car companies are constantly getting beat up. When you are taking big losses, you have to cut somewhere. They aren't profitable because they haven't been inovative enough.
I am quite suprised you are bringing up this isolationist idea. Just because someone suggests to buy US does in no way suggest isolationism. It only suggests a sense of patriotism. I think you are on the wrong path here. And your idea of the US workforce becoming a much more advanced workforce ignores the fact that there are too many other people in the US that are not in yours and my shoes where they can easily move laterally in the workforce with little or no impact on their salary or benifits. Once again, this is an economists view, but not a realistic view.
In a capitalist society, it forces people to evolve. There will ALWAYS be labor and manufacturing jobs. In my opinion, it is better to have fewer. Lets face it...The largest employer, by far, in the US is small business. Companies like mine drive the economy not manufacturing. It would be a major step back to go the other way.
Your point about selling only Asian made electronics is a reality that we have to live with. Our consumer electronics manufacturing capability has been lost to the Asian countries because it was cheaper to manufacture in China. I no way view this as an advacement in our manufacturing prowness. Quite the contrary, it would have been more interesting to find a way to manufacture these items through a mechanism other than cheap physical labor. Now these countries that build these consumer electronics will apply those unique manufacturing techniques to reduce their costs! They are quite equiped to do this because they are young manufacturers.
Wouldn't the end result be the same? It would put more and more manufacturing workers out of work... This has already happened throughout our countries history through invention. The cotton gin, motorized plows, robotics in manufacturing. They all put people out of work.
I would say we are becoming a service based economy, not a consumer based economy and I think that very few economists would disagree with that assessment. This means that we have less and less manufacturing jobs and more and more service jobs like mowing lawns, building homes, selling off-shore products, shipping, waitressing, nursing... Unfortuneately, not all these jobs are high paying jobs and many of the people that had higher paying manufacturing jobs are now forced into these jobs.
There is defintely truth to this statement. But, you are leaving out the millions of other jobs that showcase our inovation like software developement, medical research and development, computer technology. Our economy can and will thrive with fewer manufacturing jobs. BTW...Home building is manufacturing and it has been through the roof over the past several years :-)
Your last statement; however, is the least logical though. That you could possibly think that buying an off-shore product somehow is benificial to the US economy. Since you are so far away from manufacturing, you are so divorced from what is going on in the real work place that you don't see that real live people are actually paying for your "best value for your money".
BryceGTX
1st benefit - It keeps inflation down which has always been an issue in the US. 2nd benefit - It puts more money in the hands of families that spend less. 3rd benefit - The give companies like mine a high margin piece to help offset tough months. (You may be amazed at what I pay for a car charger or leather case).
Bryce, I am smack dab in the real world. As a business owner, I have to recognize the things going on. As an investor, I have to recognize trends in buying, manufacturing, and global economics. Watch GE for example, they are like a giant mutual fund becasue of their massive diversification.
Anyway, Thanks for the adult conversation. I certainly appreciate the intelligent responses without attacks. Have a great day!
You wrote a condradictory opinion here and I don't quite know where you were going. I guess you are trying to make the same point I made about needing to step it up in other markets
There appears to be no benifit to trading a job at a US company for a job at a foreign manufacturer. This simply trades a higher paid, better benifits job for a cheaper job that the foreign manufactuer enjoys. It might be initially great for the consumer, because the foreign manufactuer can offer cheaper products. However, it is at the expense of the US company and the US worker. This I take exception to. GM has to add $1600 dollars to a car to pay for these benifits. However, the off-shore companies do not have this expense. The net result is that this effect decreases the standard of living for the US worker, because now he has to make concessions to keep the company profitable. There is no logical argument that can possibly be presented that provides the US worker with a higher standard of living. Good grief, look at what is happening in the US work place. US workers are paying more out of pocket for all their benifits. Ultimately the end result is that all US jobs will become these lower paying jobs forced on us by foreign manufacturers. So there is no increase in the standard of living.
Historically, when an industry in the US shrinks or goes away, it is replaced with better higher tech industry. Withregard to the car industry. No one is "taking" our jobs. Our industry is slow moving and over bloated. They don't build vehicles (other than trucks) that are as competitive. Take a Toyota Camry for example...It is more expensive than say a Pontiac Grand Prix, Ford Tauras, or whatever. The Toyota still out sells all of the others. While American car companies are getting brow beaten by the unions, the imports continue to improve quality and desirability. I know it will be different in Michigan, but here, people line up to work at the Toyota Camry plant. We also have 2 other major Ford plants as well. This action causes greater competition and inovation. It may also cause people to get out and do their own thing, creating their own standard of living.
Regarding benefits and such, it goes along with what I was saying. The American car companies are constantly getting beat up. When you are taking big losses, you have to cut somewhere. They aren't profitable because they haven't been inovative enough.
I am quite suprised you are bringing up this isolationist idea. Just because someone suggests to buy US does in no way suggest isolationism. It only suggests a sense of patriotism. I think you are on the wrong path here. And your idea of the US workforce becoming a much more advanced workforce ignores the fact that there are too many other people in the US that are not in yours and my shoes where they can easily move laterally in the workforce with little or no impact on their salary or benifits. Once again, this is an economists view, but not a realistic view.
In a capitalist society, it forces people to evolve. There will ALWAYS be labor and manufacturing jobs. In my opinion, it is better to have fewer. Lets face it...The largest employer, by far, in the US is small business. Companies like mine drive the economy not manufacturing. It would be a major step back to go the other way.
Your point about selling only Asian made electronics is a reality that we have to live with. Our consumer electronics manufacturing capability has been lost to the Asian countries because it was cheaper to manufacture in China. I no way view this as an advacement in our manufacturing prowness. Quite the contrary, it would have been more interesting to find a way to manufacture these items through a mechanism other than cheap physical labor. Now these countries that build these consumer electronics will apply those unique manufacturing techniques to reduce their costs! They are quite equiped to do this because they are young manufacturers.
Wouldn't the end result be the same? It would put more and more manufacturing workers out of work... This has already happened throughout our countries history through invention. The cotton gin, motorized plows, robotics in manufacturing. They all put people out of work.
I would say we are becoming a service based economy, not a consumer based economy and I think that very few economists would disagree with that assessment. This means that we have less and less manufacturing jobs and more and more service jobs like mowing lawns, building homes, selling off-shore products, shipping, waitressing, nursing... Unfortuneately, not all these jobs are high paying jobs and many of the people that had higher paying manufacturing jobs are now forced into these jobs.
There is defintely truth to this statement. But, you are leaving out the millions of other jobs that showcase our inovation like software developement, medical research and development, computer technology. Our economy can and will thrive with fewer manufacturing jobs. BTW...Home building is manufacturing and it has been through the roof over the past several years :-)
Your last statement; however, is the least logical though. That you could possibly think that buying an off-shore product somehow is benificial to the US economy. Since you are so far away from manufacturing, you are so divorced from what is going on in the real work place that you don't see that real live people are actually paying for your "best value for your money".
BryceGTX
1st benefit - It keeps inflation down which has always been an issue in the US. 2nd benefit - It puts more money in the hands of families that spend less. 3rd benefit - The give companies like mine a high margin piece to help offset tough months. (You may be amazed at what I pay for a car charger or leather case).
Bryce, I am smack dab in the real world. As a business owner, I have to recognize the things going on. As an investor, I have to recognize trends in buying, manufacturing, and global economics. Watch GE for example, they are like a giant mutual fund becasue of their massive diversification.
Anyway, Thanks for the adult conversation. I certainly appreciate the intelligent responses without attacks. Have a great day!
#59
06-06-2005, 12:12 AM
Why buy American
You wrote a condradictory opinion here and I don't quite know where you were going. I guess you are trying to make the same point I made about needing to step it up in other markets
Historically, when an industry in the US shrinks or goes away, it is replaced with better higher tech industry. Withregard to the car industry. No one is "taking" our jobs. Our industry is slow moving and over bloated. They don't build vehicles (other than trucks) that are as competitive. Take a Toyota Camry for example...It is more expensive than say a Pontiac Grand Prix, Ford Tauras, or whatever. The Toyota still out sells all of the others. While American car companies are getting brow beaten by the unions, the imports continue to improve quality and desirability. I know it will be different in Michigan, but here, people line up to work at the Toyota Camry plant. We also have 2 other major Ford plants as well. This action causes greater competition and inovation. It may also cause people to get out and do their own thing, creating their own standard of living.
I love your statement "Our industry is slow moving and over bloated". So does this statement mean that our workers are overpaid and have very good benifits.. So we should replace them with jobs that pay less and less benifits?? What the heck happens to the standard of living when we accept lower paying jobs? The only one that gains in that scenario is the guy at the top. Oh, yea.... I forgot YOU ARE THAT GUY AT THE TOP !!
In a capitalist society, it forces people to evolve. There will ALWAYS be labor and manufacturing jobs. In my opinion, it is better to have fewer. Lets face it...The largest employer, by far, in the US is small business. Companies like mine drive the economy not manufacturing. It would be a major step back to go the other way.
Wouldn't the end result be the same? It would put more and more manufacturing workers out of work... This has already happened throughout our countries history through invention. The cotton gin, motorized plows, robotics in manufacturing. They all put people out of work.
There is defintely truth to this statement. But, you are leaving out the millions of other jobs that showcase our inovation like software developement, medical research and development, computer technology. Our economy can and will thrive with fewer manufacturing jobs. BTW...Home building is manufacturing and it has been through the roof over the past several years :-)
1st benefit - It keeps inflation down which has always been an issue in the US. 2nd benefit - It puts more money in the hands of families that spend less. 3rd benefit - The give companies like mine a high margin piece to help offset tough months. (You may be amazed at what I pay for a car charger or leather case).