Why buy American
#81
06-07-2005, 02:36 PM
Why buy American
Originally posted by: propnut
Don't forget these figures;
The AP reported that General Motors Corp. chairman and chief executive Rick Wagoner received $12.8 million in compensation last year, including stock options, as the company reinstated cash bonuses for all its top executives.
Don't forget these figures;
The AP reported that General Motors Corp. chairman and chief executive Rick Wagoner received $12.8 million in compensation last year, including stock options, as the company reinstated cash bonuses for all its top executives.
Not only should management be penalized, many should be fired. If I ran those kinds of loses, I would be bankrupt.
#82
06-07-2005, 03:22 PM
Why buy American
Originally posted by: BryceGTX
I don't think you can infer from anything I have posted that I am against a global market. Clearly as I have stated already, increasing exports is one of the best things we can do. But clearly increasing domestic manufacturing, reducing imports and increasing exports is even better!! Seems to me this is just commmon sense.
So...bassically...we are in agreement...more or less? Other than the fact that you believe manufacturing is more important to our economy than I do. Like when we went through our industrial period where farming became insignificant to our economy as a whole, manufacturing will be similar but not as extreme.
I specifically asked you a question!! The question was... What benefits do your employees get? The reason I asked this question was to make a point that your employees do not get benefits that are as good as most manufacturers employees because you are a small business. The point is that it is not so great to work for small business.
It was not me that started talking about micro and macro economics.. Once again, you are assuming what I do and don't read or think. I find this thinking quite strange.
OK...I have already agreed that I don't have fortune 100 entitlements...I mean benefits. What is your point?? Small business still has a far greater impact on our economy. Additionally, look at what is happening to GM!! They can't operate in this manner. The are closing plants and laying off ANOTHER 25,000 workers. At some point, the workers and union MUST take some responsibility for the problems at hand. What good is GM as an employer if they can't stay in business and can't stay competitve. My business is small potatos with about $2 million in revenue. But, if large companies operate like we do, they would be far more solvent.
I didn't say we should shut out world trade. LOL, I consider exports to be the most beneficial. Seems to me that 5.1% is not zero. Therfore, it is always capable of going lower.
It has never been zero and never will for the obvious reasons. Regardless, there is far more opportunity globally than domestically. People need to start thinking that their own little world is the end all.
Domestic content has already been posted on this thread. If you don't agree with the figures, why don't you provide more accurate figures for us?
I am amazed that you are saying this. Now you know my complete investment portfolio!!!! ROGLMFAO... I am speechless...
It is nice that Toyota has so much money. It only supports my argument further that domestic auto manufacturers need support from us. As far as people standing in line for jobs. This happens at any big manufacturing facility. This is nothing new for any plant. People want jobs; people want money. Last time I checked many families are two income families. No new news here!!
Ha! Ha! You love to take leaps don't you? Like I posted before, I was GUESSING about your 401k!!! I still believe you and 99.999% of all people out there (including me)are unaware of their mutual fund content. For kicks and giggles, I looked at just one of my funds and they have over 500 holdings! If you actually confirm that I am wrong (which would be an undertaking), PM your address and I will send you a dollar.
What the heck are you doing running a dinky business... You should be CEO of GM. Have you ever applied for the position? Does Toyota pay their worker based on commision? Then why should GM or Ford? Do you think that GM and Ford are just sitting still doing nothing? I am sure they do not have anyone as smart as you on their payroll, but they are struggling the best they can against the onslaught of the imports.
Come on Bryce...it was just a fun idea. Don't take life too serious. If I were the CEO of GM, I would be running the show very differently and I wouldn't except my full $12.8 million in comp, at least not while getting slaughtered by the competition and losing $2000 per car built!! I would want to give people reasons to buy my cars OTHER THAN "Buy American". Cadilac is on the right track, the Solstice is a great example, but get rid of or redesign some of the other ugly utilitarian vehicles.
I like my dinky business. It provides an excellent income for my employees and I. Plus, I make a very good profit margin (the goal of ALL businesses). Someone may want to mention that part to GM management :-)
I am no minister, but the logic of not sending all of our dollars off shore to "cash rich" companies such as Toyota only requires common sense to understand. When Japan buys GM products, maybe I will be more receptive to Japanese products.
That is good to hear!
Once again I would like to point out that when we buy high off-shore content Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans, we are sending many dollars over seas. The problem with sending dollars over seas is that normally these dollars would be spent on goods and services. That spending would be taxed by local, state and federal taxes. Then the reciever of those dollars pays his employees who buy more goods and services. This train of buying, spending and taxing continues on many many times. When the dollars are shipped over seas; the buck stops there...
BryceGTX
The fact is you are dead wrong about most of what you quoted. You obviously do not understand the concept of a GLOBAL market. Yes, I would love to see the trade deficit lower but not by reducing imports. I want to see exports go up. It will dramatically increase our economy. Otherwise, we can no longer prosper as an island
When I spoke of what I get in benefits, it is only a representation of success which IS passed on to my employees. They are smart enough to recognize that a 401k is NOT the end all. My employees are among the highest paid in the industry. Many of them are considered contractors which, if properly administered, is a great benefit for both parties from a tax standpoint.
I specifically asked you a question!! The question was... What benefits do your employees get? The reason I asked this question was to make a point that your employees do not get benefits that are as good as most manufacturers employees because you are a small business. The point is that it is not so great to work for small business.
am really not sure which textbooks you think I am quoting from, but you should really read more financial periodicals. They give great CURRENT information. It is not the 70s any longer and world trade is the way of the future.
OK...I have already agreed that I don't have fortune 100 entitlements...I mean benefits. What is your point?? Small business still has a far greater impact on our economy. Additionally, look at what is happening to GM!! They can't operate in this manner. The are closing plants and laying off ANOTHER 25,000 workers. At some point, the workers and union MUST take some responsibility for the problems at hand. What good is GM as an employer if they can't stay in business and can't stay competitve. My business is small potatos with about $2 million in revenue. But, if large companies operate like we do, they would be far more solvent.
The current unemployment rate is only 5.1%, which is relatively low. How exactly would shutting out world trade result in SIGNIFICANTLY lower unemployment. Manufacturing is but one sector. Seriously...think about it.
It has never been zero and never will for the obvious reasons. Regardless, there is far more opportunity globally than domestically. People need to start thinking that their own little world is the end all.
Obviously you do realize that manufacturers are required to post US content percentage for EVERY car, right? Do a little research on moth domestic and import vehicles. The line has been blurred by both.
I am well aware of the administration of 401Ks. However, anyone that has 100% individual stocks in their portfolio is an idiot. Most mutual funds have hundreds of holdings so check again. It is HIGHLY likely the you have an import automaker in a large cap fund or international fund.
BTW...Toyota is one of the most cash rich companies in the world with over $19 billion in cash on their balance sheet. I have read $1.5 billion is in cash. How much of Toyota do you think is owned by US citizens?? Contrast that with GM. People stand in line to work at the Toyota plant here in Georgetown, KY.
Ha! Ha! You love to take leaps don't you? Like I posted before, I was GUESSING about your 401k!!! I still believe you and 99.999% of all people out there (including me)are unaware of their mutual fund content. For kicks and giggles, I looked at just one of my funds and they have over 500 holdings! If you actually confirm that I am wrong (which would be an undertaking), PM your address and I will send you a dollar.
If you put all US auto manufacturing workers on commission based on quality, quantity sold, customer satisfaction, buyer loyalty, and most of all profitability the industry would be saved in a year. Otherwise, people will continue to pay more money for imports. As it stands, Ford and GM make progress and then they fall back behind in a rollercoaster cycle. They need to step up efforts in all aspects to compete. The imports are even starting to eat away at the strongest segment...trucks.
Come on Bryce...it was just a fun idea. Don't take life too serious. If I were the CEO of GM, I would be running the show very differently and I wouldn't except my full $12.8 million in comp, at least not while getting slaughtered by the competition and losing $2000 per car built!! I would want to give people reasons to buy my cars OTHER THAN "Buy American". Cadilac is on the right track, the Solstice is a great example, but get rid of or redesign some of the other ugly utilitarian vehicles.
I like my dinky business. It provides an excellent income for my employees and I. Plus, I make a very good profit margin (the goal of ALL businesses). Someone may want to mention that part to GM management :-)
Simply preaching "Buy America" isn't going to do it anymore for the average consumer anymore.
BTW...I sell many American products especially my high end audio equipment and as much as possible in wireless with Nextel/Motorola-sort-of US made).
Once again I would like to point out that when we buy high off-shore content Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans, we are sending many dollars over seas. The problem with sending dollars over seas is that normally these dollars would be spent on goods and services. That spending would be taxed by local, state and federal taxes. Then the reciever of those dollars pays his employees who buy more goods and services. This train of buying, spending and taxing continues on many many times. When the dollars are shipped over seas; the buck stops there...
BryceGTX
#83
06-07-2005, 04:10 PM
Why buy American
Originally posted by: 05PRED500
Where are you going to find the employees and companies to build all of these products and components? Current unemployment is only 5.1% and going down.
Where are you going to find the employees and companies to build all of these products and components? Current unemployment is only 5.1% and going down.
Example:
10,000,000 population, 5.1% unemployment rate is 510,000
20,000,000 population, 5.1% unemployment rate is 1,020,000
The percentage number doesn't mean diddly without actual population gains. Show us actual unemployment numbers, they are always rising.
Besides, American companies DO NOT WANT to build low margin widgets.
Low margin widgits is what China has been known for for many years, that is until greedy company heads sent our jobs to them.
So, basically what happens in this scenario is inflation goes through the roof and then the value of current wages go down. We really need foriegn sources to help keep competition up and inflation down.
Again, the solution is to continue promoting our products overseas. Think about how huge the markets are in other countries. They dwarf our small population.
Again, the solution is to continue promoting our products overseas. Think about how huge the markets are in other countries. They dwarf our small population.
I use to work at a Mack Truck engine assembly plant. It's a pride thing that people want to buy and support American products and companies. Out of the 1100 employees that were there when I worked there, there were only a handful of foreign cars and trucks, most being owned by management. BTW, when I left, (we moved-wife got a new job, wish I could have stayed) the average line worker was making about $23 an hour, with almost unlimited overtime available. And whenever there was time to hire, thousands of people would apply. People want to work no matter where it is. But if more people bought domestic products rather than foreign stuff, there would be more plants and more places for Americans to work.
Sure we can sell more stuff overseas, but the problem is that we import more than we export. We should just cut back on our importing, and create more jobs here.
#84
06-07-2005, 04:35 PM
Why buy American
QUOTE from towtruck: Sure we can sell more stuff overseas, but the problem is that we import more than we export. We should just cut back on our importing, and create more jobs here.
I have to agree. This is a far easier solution than trying to export more. Other countries are far more patriotic than we are in this sense. Try buying a bottle of California wine in France, or an American car in Japan. The same product is far higher over there than it is here, yet their products cost the nearly the same here.
I have to agree. This is a far easier solution than trying to export more. Other countries are far more patriotic than we are in this sense. Try buying a bottle of California wine in France, or an American car in Japan. The same product is far higher over there than it is here, yet their products cost the nearly the same here.
#85
06-07-2005, 05:24 PM
Why buy American
Originally posted by: sp600towtruck
5.1% yeah, but since our population is ever increasing, maintaining 5.1% means more people are becoming unemployed.
Example:
10,000,000 population, 5.1% unemployment rate is 510,000
20,000,000 population, 5.1% unemployment rate is 1,020,000
The percentage number doesn't mean diddly without actual population gains. Show us actual unemployment numbers, they are always rising.
Escellent point. At the same time, our poulation is aging and our workforce is shrinking. This offsets most if not all of that population increase.
Is that what you think Americans build? Then why send all the jobs to China, Mexico, India, etc.?
Low margin widgits is what China has been known for for many years, that is until greedy company heads sent our jobs to them.
No. My point was that American companies don't WANT to build low margin products like they build in China. An example from my business: We buy leather cases from Korea (decent quality), Car chargers from China (fair to excellent quality depending on price) and cases from Mexico (very good quality). We would have to sell US made products for twice the price and still wouldn't come close to the same margins. US companies have no desire to make these products. There isn't a single US manufacturer that I know of that is even remotely reasonable in price. My customers which consist of mostly soldiers from Ft. Knox simply can not pay those types of prices. Plus, we would get killed by our competition.
Our government needs to take more care for our home businesses rather than the foreign ones. When a foreign automaker wants to build a plant here, in most cases they get free land, tax breaks, and I know of one Japanese owned plant where they brought over Japanese steel, Japanese construction companies, and so forth to build it. Now there is no wonder Toyota has extra cash, they are getting breaks. Do you think GM and Ford get breaks on land? Do you think Toyota pays their line workers as much as GM or Ford? Do they get the awesome benefits and pensions that the American companies give their employees? I don't think so.
I use to work at a Mack Truck engine assembly plant. It's a pride thing that people want to buy and support American products and companies. Out of the 1100 employees that were there when I worked there, there were only a handful of foreign cars and trucks, most being owned by management. BTW, when I left, (we moved-wife got a new job, wish I could have stayed) the average line worker was making about $23 an hour, with almost unlimited overtime available. And whenever there was time to hire, thousands of people would apply. People want to work no matter where it is. But if more people bought domestic products rather than foreign stuff, there would be more plants and more places for Americans to work.
Sure we can sell more stuff overseas, but the problem is that we import more than we export. We should just cut back on our importing, and create more jobs here.
Originally posted by: 05PRED500
Where are you going to find the employees and companies to build all of these products and components? Current unemployment is only 5.1% and going down.
Where are you going to find the employees and companies to build all of these products and components? Current unemployment is only 5.1% and going down.
Example:
10,000,000 population, 5.1% unemployment rate is 510,000
20,000,000 population, 5.1% unemployment rate is 1,020,000
The percentage number doesn't mean diddly without actual population gains. Show us actual unemployment numbers, they are always rising.
Escellent point. At the same time, our poulation is aging and our workforce is shrinking. This offsets most if not all of that population increase.
Besides, American companies DO NOT WANT to build low margin widgets.
Low margin widgits is what China has been known for for many years, that is until greedy company heads sent our jobs to them.
No. My point was that American companies don't WANT to build low margin products like they build in China. An example from my business: We buy leather cases from Korea (decent quality), Car chargers from China (fair to excellent quality depending on price) and cases from Mexico (very good quality). We would have to sell US made products for twice the price and still wouldn't come close to the same margins. US companies have no desire to make these products. There isn't a single US manufacturer that I know of that is even remotely reasonable in price. My customers which consist of mostly soldiers from Ft. Knox simply can not pay those types of prices. Plus, we would get killed by our competition.
So, basically what happens in this scenario is inflation goes through the roof and then the value of current wages go down. We really need foriegn sources to help keep competition up and inflation down.
Again, the solution is to continue promoting our products overseas. Think about how huge the markets are in other countries. They dwarf our small population.
Again, the solution is to continue promoting our products overseas. Think about how huge the markets are in other countries. They dwarf our small population.
I use to work at a Mack Truck engine assembly plant. It's a pride thing that people want to buy and support American products and companies. Out of the 1100 employees that were there when I worked there, there were only a handful of foreign cars and trucks, most being owned by management. BTW, when I left, (we moved-wife got a new job, wish I could have stayed) the average line worker was making about $23 an hour, with almost unlimited overtime available. And whenever there was time to hire, thousands of people would apply. People want to work no matter where it is. But if more people bought domestic products rather than foreign stuff, there would be more plants and more places for Americans to work.
Sure we can sell more stuff overseas, but the problem is that we import more than we export. We should just cut back on our importing, and create more jobs here.
I bought a Polaris Predator 500 and Sportsman 400 because they were good values. I frankly would have bought the Yamaha YFZ if the price was more competitve and it had reverse since it does perform better. Polaris is very competitive with the import brands on many levels and better with features.
I certainly am not saying that we should buy import products because of this or that reason. I am saying that we are the greatest country in the world and I get tired of people whining because we can't compete. It is time that our people stand up and fight for our position in the global marketplace. Since we are talking about "ifs", we would be far more competitive in the world if we stepped up our education system and got rid of social promotion in schools. We would be stronger if our CEOs got a clue and figured out that there is a ton of success and market share to be had globally. GM has a responsibility to it's employees and shareholders to be profitable. To do so, they may have to copy some of the innovation, design, marketing, and quality control of some of the import brands.
Many of our companies do a GREAT job globally like Microsoft, Intel, Apple, and many others. The key and commonality of these companies is high tech development that others can not yet do.
#86
06-07-2005, 05:47 PM
Why buy American
Originally posted by: 05PRED500
This opens up another can of worms...
Not only should management be penalized, many should be fired. If I ran those kinds of loses, I would be bankrupt.
Originally posted by: propnut
Don't forget these figures;
The AP reported that General Motors Corp. chairman and chief executive Rick Wagoner received $12.8 million in compensation last year, including stock options, as the company reinstated cash bonuses for all its top executives.
Don't forget these figures;
The AP reported that General Motors Corp. chairman and chief executive Rick Wagoner received $12.8 million in compensation last year, including stock options, as the company reinstated cash bonuses for all its top executives.
Not only should management be penalized, many should be fired. If I ran those kinds of loses, I would be bankrupt.
#87
06-07-2005, 06:00 PM
Why buy American
So...bassically...we are in agreement...more or less? Other than the fact that you believe manufacturing is more important to our economy than I do. Like when we went through our industrial period where farming became insignificant to our economy as a whole, manufacturing will be similar but not as extreme.
It has never been zero and never will for the obvious reasons. Regardless, there is far more opportunity globally than domestically. People need to start thinking that their own little world is the end all.
Face it. We are always going to send dollars overseas. Let's be dominate in the world economy rather than worrying about dominating our relatively tiny market of 300 million. Then, you will save many jobs and good salaries/benefits rather than the much smaller number from a shrinking GM and Ford.
Come on Bryce...it was just a fun idea. Don't take life too serious. If I were the CEO of GM, I would be running the show very differently and I wouldn't except my full $12.8 million in comp, at least not while getting slaughtered by the competition and losing $2000 per car built!! I would want to give people reasons to buy my cars OTHER THAN "Buy American". Cadilac is on the right track, the Solstice is a great example, but get rid of or redesign some of the other ugly utilitarian vehicles.
#88
06-07-2005, 06:03 PM
Why buy American
Originally posted by: BryceGTX
Boy if you cannot win in the most fundamental argument of sending dollars over seas; you just change the subject. Poor argument. Now add to the long list of questions to you that remain unanswered. What do the Japanese CEOs make?
Originally posted by: 05PRED500
This opens up another can of worms...
Not only should management be penalized, many should be fired. If I ran those kinds of loses, I would be bankrupt.
Originally posted by: propnut
Don't forget these figures;
The AP reported that General Motors Corp. chairman and chief executive Rick Wagoner received $12.8 million in compensation last year, including stock options, as the company reinstated cash bonuses for all its top executives.
Don't forget these figures;
The AP reported that General Motors Corp. chairman and chief executive Rick Wagoner received $12.8 million in compensation last year, including stock options, as the company reinstated cash bonuses for all its top executives.
Not only should management be penalized, many should be fired. If I ran those kinds of loses, I would be bankrupt.
I guess I really rub you the wrong way. Re-read the post. I DID NOT START THE ARGUMENT. I said it opened opened up a new can of worms. I could care less what a Japanese CEO makes. I suppose of their Board of Directors have any sense, they wouldn't pay 12.8 million for a guy to lose enough money to fund a third world nation.
No matter what I say, you will not think that I have a valid argument. Your tunnel vision will not allow you to open up to other ideas.
I will try one more time. You are not going to stop the inflow of inport products. You will not even be able to curb it. The other way to keep American jobs is to go after the global market. Your emotional attachment to this subject does not allow you to critically think about the situation in any other way except to blame people for buying a product not made in America by and American company
#89
06-07-2005, 06:06 PM
Why buy American
I certainly am not saying that we should buy import products because of this or that reason. I am saying that we are the greatest country in the world and I get tired of people whining because we can't compete. It is time that our people stand up and fight for our position in the global marketplace.
Once again I will remind us all that it is always better to buy US to reduce the number of dollars going over seas.
#90
06-07-2005, 06:10 PM
Why buy American
Quite frankly, there is a good argument already. Most people (except you) have already figured out that GM makes better cars than anyone else in the world. The people of the world have voted in that GM is the biggest automobile manufacturer. But hey, you can put your head in the sand and believe otherwise. Its clear in your posts that you do.