Belt Smokers
#22
03-19-2006 | 09:36 AM
Pro Rider
Joined: Jan 2005
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Belt Smokers
[quote]
SMG's is what you'll see...."automatics"......[quote]
well then, mission accomplished. Its not an "automatic" in the traditional sense after all (well at least the manufacturer doesn't think so). Even so, using an SMG to praise a belt CVT's performance because they are both "automatics" is silly. A hondamatic would be the only ATV tranny that compares (in operation). You can select different ratios or let the computer do it for you.
V2, how many people do you know have had to work on their Hondamatic or manual quad's tranny? Not many I bet. Belts don't have same the reliability reputation as the other types for a reason. And again, I am not saying that the belts are terrible. I've spent a lot of time with belts. It cost me $350 to rebuild my SRX primary 2 years ago. Not exactly cheap. Add to that all the springs, weights, rivets, belts, bushings, and helixes over the years too. I hear a lot of riders aren't getting a 1000 miles out of a >$100 belt on one newer model.
SMG's is what you'll see...."automatics"......[quote]
in reference to the "M" in SMG, it stands for "Manual"..not "Motorsports"...........
V2, how many people do you know have had to work on their Hondamatic or manual quad's tranny? Not many I bet. Belts don't have same the reliability reputation as the other types for a reason. And again, I am not saying that the belts are terrible. I've spent a lot of time with belts. It cost me $350 to rebuild my SRX primary 2 years ago. Not exactly cheap. Add to that all the springs, weights, rivets, belts, bushings, and helixes over the years too. I hear a lot of riders aren't getting a 1000 miles out of a >$100 belt on one newer model.
#24
03-19-2006 | 02:41 PM
Range Rover
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Belt Smokers
I had one my xplorer 400 4x4 never had a problem belt driver at 5,000 mile put a new belt. My on xplorer 400 4x4 now at 9,000 mile even run good.
--------------------------
xplorer 400 4x4 2001
hot seat pipe, hot seat clutch kits,
Hi comp 12:1 head, force reed 2,
26 inch tire goodyear mud runner,
front fox shock, rear fox shock
--------------------------
xplorer 400 4x4 2001
hot seat pipe, hot seat clutch kits,
Hi comp 12:1 head, force reed 2,
26 inch tire goodyear mud runner,
front fox shock, rear fox shock
#25
03-19-2006 | 09:50 PM
Range Rover
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 192
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Belt Smokers
Only reluctantly am I enterng this fray. Believe the originator of this thread made his feelings known when he said he would never have a belt. Fine. Some folks enjoy being more connected to their ride (same for BMW who originally stated their SMG would be their transmission of choice. The ownership pushed back and BMW will now offer a "conventional" manual on it's new models in addition to an SMG).
In the big picture, this ATV thing is relatively new. Initially they were all manuals of small size by today's standard - you got a 400..WOW! As the market moved to belts there have been understandable problems, particularly when the buyer starts playing with them (we're never happy with the power we have are we). We can expect belts to continue to get better. And don't most of the big bore machines have belt systems vice manuals right now? Any way you cut it, the market in utility quads is moving towards larger machines, EFI, and belts (or in Honda's case auto). In 3 or 4 years manuals will limited and confined to the smaller classes (<4-500cc). My dealer tells me he has a cattle rancher with an '04 V2 AC (known to have belt problems) with over 10K on the orginal belt. He uses it for work, towing and hauling, it's not putt, putt around. And AC's Duramatic is about as close to bullet proof as a belt can be, still, if you get them wet they will slip. Right now some belt systems need a little tweeking, and some do not. In a few years we'll all be complaining when our belts won't last 10K out of the box w/out ever looking at them. So, before you commit to saying you will NEVER own one...remember you're never suppose to get old either, but you will. Times change and so will you.
A fellow that worked for me just bought his second M3 last week. I'm looking to sell my older Porsche and move to a '02-'03 M5, and if any of you don't believe they are fast, unless you have a Z06, tread lightly around one. Who knows about the new V10 M5. But before you Corvette lovers get in a snit, know the Corvette represents the best VALUE for the dollar out there and I'm glad they are there and we have them as a choice.
In the big picture, this ATV thing is relatively new. Initially they were all manuals of small size by today's standard - you got a 400..WOW! As the market moved to belts there have been understandable problems, particularly when the buyer starts playing with them (we're never happy with the power we have are we). We can expect belts to continue to get better. And don't most of the big bore machines have belt systems vice manuals right now? Any way you cut it, the market in utility quads is moving towards larger machines, EFI, and belts (or in Honda's case auto). In 3 or 4 years manuals will limited and confined to the smaller classes (<4-500cc). My dealer tells me he has a cattle rancher with an '04 V2 AC (known to have belt problems) with over 10K on the orginal belt. He uses it for work, towing and hauling, it's not putt, putt around. And AC's Duramatic is about as close to bullet proof as a belt can be, still, if you get them wet they will slip. Right now some belt systems need a little tweeking, and some do not. In a few years we'll all be complaining when our belts won't last 10K out of the box w/out ever looking at them. So, before you commit to saying you will NEVER own one...remember you're never suppose to get old either, but you will. Times change and so will you.
A fellow that worked for me just bought his second M3 last week. I'm looking to sell my older Porsche and move to a '02-'03 M5, and if any of you don't believe they are fast, unless you have a Z06, tread lightly around one. Who knows about the new V10 M5. But before you Corvette lovers get in a snit, know the Corvette represents the best VALUE for the dollar out there and I'm glad they are there and we have them as a choice.
#26
03-26-2006 | 01:30 AM
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 15
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Belt Smokers
after reading some responses to what people have taken as an offensive remark on my sig, i can tell that most people here wouldnt know thermostat from a damn PCV valve. both of which are very common parts that should be replaced regulary. i can also tell that these same people only know what they read in magazines. ive probably torn apart more engines and transmissions than almost anyone on this thread, and i dont even know how a SMG works. sure you can tell me how it works from what you read in car and driver, but i bet you couldnt drain the fluid in a simple TH400 tranny. and as far as an auto vette, anybody who actually would use at least 3/4 of the power the car produces, youd never get an auto. case in point-i drove my buddy's stick c-5 with a 350 and pulled a car length on an auto c-6 with the 6.0L. most people ive met that own auto vettes are old retired guys who barely do the speed limit on the highway, yet refuse to get in the slow lane. and dont bring in f1 cars, thats like comparing outback's steak to denny's steak.
buyin a fast car or has someone else do the work is like payin another man to have sex with your wife and being proud of it when the baby pops out.
buyin a fast car or has someone else do the work is like payin another man to have sex with your wife and being proud of it when the baby pops out.
#27
03-26-2006 | 02:27 AM
Range Rover
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Belt Smokers
Originally posted by: Guinness
after reading some responses to what people have taken as an offensive remark on my sig, i can tell that most people here wouldnt know thermostat from a damn PCV valve. both of which are very common parts that should be replaced regulary. i can also tell that these same people only know what they read in magazines. ive probably torn apart more engines and transmissions than almost anyone on this thread, and i dont even know how a SMG works. sure you can tell me how it works from what you read in car and driver, but i bet you couldnt drain the fluid in a simple TH400 tranny. and as far as an auto vette, anybody who actually would use at least 3/4 of the power the car produces, youd never get an auto. case in point-i drove my buddy's stick c-5 with a 350 and pulled a car length on an auto c-6 with the 6.0L. most people ive met that own auto vettes are old retired guys who barely do the speed limit on the highway, yet refuse to get in the slow lane. and dont bring in f1 cars, thats like comparing outback's steak to denny's steak.
buyin a fast car or has someone else do the work is like payin another man to have sex with your wife and being proud of it when the baby pops out.
after reading some responses to what people have taken as an offensive remark on my sig, i can tell that most people here wouldnt know thermostat from a damn PCV valve. both of which are very common parts that should be replaced regulary. i can also tell that these same people only know what they read in magazines. ive probably torn apart more engines and transmissions than almost anyone on this thread, and i dont even know how a SMG works. sure you can tell me how it works from what you read in car and driver, but i bet you couldnt drain the fluid in a simple TH400 tranny. and as far as an auto vette, anybody who actually would use at least 3/4 of the power the car produces, youd never get an auto. case in point-i drove my buddy's stick c-5 with a 350 and pulled a car length on an auto c-6 with the 6.0L. most people ive met that own auto vettes are old retired guys who barely do the speed limit on the highway, yet refuse to get in the slow lane. and dont bring in f1 cars, thats like comparing outback's steak to denny's steak.
buyin a fast car or has someone else do the work is like payin another man to have sex with your wife and being proud of it when the baby pops out.
He's probably still laughing..........watching you slam through the gears as he cruised down the road.
#28
03-26-2006 | 12:29 PM
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Belt Smokers
I guess i left out the part where it was in Imokolee drag strip????
and you obviously have never raced someone who knows how to use the full potential of a manual. sure, lots of people can drive a stick, but not everybody can powershift through the gears at WOT without missing a beat.
god, you're worse than ricers... j/k lol
but back to the original topic, i must agree with some of the arguements on belts behalf. i owned a prarie 400 4x4, and it faired very well through our trails. but alas, numerous times the muck got too deep, and our old 03 rancher 4x4 had to pull me out. because the belt i replaced almost every two months, kept slipping. that just left a bad taste in my mouth. that topped on to me having used to race four wheelers, and loving shofting through the gears, i just dont like belts. granted some of the new ones are much better than my old kawasucky, but untill the day they have to pull my vinson out, im stickin to manuals
and you obviously have never raced someone who knows how to use the full potential of a manual. sure, lots of people can drive a stick, but not everybody can powershift through the gears at WOT without missing a beat.
god, you're worse than ricers... j/k lol
but back to the original topic, i must agree with some of the arguements on belts behalf. i owned a prarie 400 4x4, and it faired very well through our trails. but alas, numerous times the muck got too deep, and our old 03 rancher 4x4 had to pull me out. because the belt i replaced almost every two months, kept slipping. that just left a bad taste in my mouth. that topped on to me having used to race four wheelers, and loving shofting through the gears, i just dont like belts. granted some of the new ones are much better than my old kawasucky, but untill the day they have to pull my vinson out, im stickin to manuals
#29
03-26-2006 | 01:33 PM
Pro Rider
Joined: Oct 2004
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Belt Smokers
I don't agree with the above poster
Give me a manual in sport quads
For my Ute quads though I'll take a belt. Maybe I am spoiled by my Grizz's CVT belt tranny but I'll wager it'll out preform any shifter quad in the Ute catagory. I can't imagine trying to hunt on a quad with a manual tranny! Your driving along and see a bird, then you reach for the gun...but wait!! you forgot to grab the clutch and shift to neutral first...crap! you just killed your engine and the bird flew away...bummer but no worries while you were trying to find neutral and get parked I simply put my toe on the rear brake foot petal and slowed to a stop as I was reaching for the gun, by the time you had neutral I had the bird gutted out and sitting steaming in the game bag.
Or how about if you wern't bird hunting but simply wanted to get the bino's out to look at some deer you might think was a buck? Same thing goes, you gotta get to a stop, find neutral, then go about finding the binos and looking at your buck while somone on an auto simply grabbed the binos while stopping and had it in sight before it ran off.
As far as relibility issues go I don't think there are any honestly. Sure you need to keep your belt dry but that is easy, just inspect your belt cover for dmg and keep good seals on it. Don't drive in water over your belts snorkel or if yo do just cover the inlet with something. The worst thing you can do though is get a belt drive quad that doesn't have low range or neglect to use low range and pull something too hard for your quad to pull. I would say though that any transmission would suffer though if you did that. A wet clutch manual will also fry, but you don't smell it right away because it's incased in oil and doesn't breathe like a belt does, but the life of your clutch will be much shorter and will slip eventually. Hondamatics I don't know what they do but I would wager a bet that it will mess up in one way or other if abused like mentioned above.
A side note about Honda trannys though.. I was watching a tractor type sled pull with a sled designed for ATV's. The Kodiak 450 pulled the sled like 80 some feet but the Honda wouldn't even get the sled started, just sat on the line and the engine reved but did nothing. I don't know if the Kodiak had low range on or if the Honda even had low range but it didn't look good for the honda. I wouldn't ever concider buying one until they had a diff lock system, then I would look at them but probably still wouldn't buy one until it had a belt drive system.
Give me a manual in sport quads
For my Ute quads though I'll take a belt. Maybe I am spoiled by my Grizz's CVT belt tranny but I'll wager it'll out preform any shifter quad in the Ute catagory. I can't imagine trying to hunt on a quad with a manual tranny! Your driving along and see a bird, then you reach for the gun...but wait!! you forgot to grab the clutch and shift to neutral first...crap! you just killed your engine and the bird flew away...bummer but no worries while you were trying to find neutral and get parked I simply put my toe on the rear brake foot petal and slowed to a stop as I was reaching for the gun, by the time you had neutral I had the bird gutted out and sitting steaming in the game bag.
Or how about if you wern't bird hunting but simply wanted to get the bino's out to look at some deer you might think was a buck? Same thing goes, you gotta get to a stop, find neutral, then go about finding the binos and looking at your buck while somone on an auto simply grabbed the binos while stopping and had it in sight before it ran off.
As far as relibility issues go I don't think there are any honestly. Sure you need to keep your belt dry but that is easy, just inspect your belt cover for dmg and keep good seals on it. Don't drive in water over your belts snorkel or if yo do just cover the inlet with something. The worst thing you can do though is get a belt drive quad that doesn't have low range or neglect to use low range and pull something too hard for your quad to pull. I would say though that any transmission would suffer though if you did that. A wet clutch manual will also fry, but you don't smell it right away because it's incased in oil and doesn't breathe like a belt does, but the life of your clutch will be much shorter and will slip eventually. Hondamatics I don't know what they do but I would wager a bet that it will mess up in one way or other if abused like mentioned above.
A side note about Honda trannys though.. I was watching a tractor type sled pull with a sled designed for ATV's. The Kodiak 450 pulled the sled like 80 some feet but the Honda wouldn't even get the sled started, just sat on the line and the engine reved but did nothing. I don't know if the Kodiak had low range on or if the Honda even had low range but it didn't look good for the honda. I wouldn't ever concider buying one until they had a diff lock system, then I would look at them but probably still wouldn't buy one until it had a belt drive system.
#30
03-26-2006 | 01:50 PM
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