How come honda builds lackluster motors?
#81
01-31-2004, 01:49 AM
#82
01-31-2004, 02:00 AM
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How come honda builds lackluster motors?
crblick- Honda might have built machines in the PAST to be modified but that will not be the case with the unicorn crf450. In fact i think Honda does not want any aftermarket support (besides the own HRC stuff) anymore.
I think honda sits on there butts nowadays. They earned the reputation on relibility back in the 80's with some of there fourtrax line and others. NOT MUCH CAN BREAK on a fourtrax 300. Low powered/no real suspension/NO FRILLS line of quads. The newer stuff is no better than the rest of them. At any given time there will be more 400ex's that will not start over raptors. there were issues with 400ex starting, cracking rear swing arms and what happens when you bend the factory rear grab bar.
Yes i am well aware Yamaha screwed us on the 2001 raptor tranny 3 years ago. I fully expect to break parts the way i modd my stuff wether it be a yamaha, Kawaski, suzuki, honda or what ever other brand if there are any.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
I think it has more to do with the expired 10 year thing than anything. That seemed to hurt them more than the other makers.
Compared to the yamaha 450 the honda is way overpiced at 400 dollars less. No FCR carb, electric start............
I think honda sits on there butts nowadays. They earned the reputation on relibility back in the 80's with some of there fourtrax line and others. NOT MUCH CAN BREAK on a fourtrax 300. Low powered/no real suspension/NO FRILLS line of quads. The newer stuff is no better than the rest of them. At any given time there will be more 400ex's that will not start over raptors. there were issues with 400ex starting, cracking rear swing arms and what happens when you bend the factory rear grab bar.
Yes i am well aware Yamaha screwed us on the 2001 raptor tranny 3 years ago. I fully expect to break parts the way i modd my stuff wether it be a yamaha, Kawaski, suzuki, honda or what ever other brand if there are any.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
I think it has more to do with the expired 10 year thing than anything. That seemed to hurt them more than the other makers.
Compared to the yamaha 450 the honda is way overpiced at 400 dollars less. No FCR carb, electric start............
#83
01-31-2004, 02:22 AM
The Facility
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 4,062
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How come honda builds lackluster motors?
The point is,........... even though the TRX is detuned........You are STILL working with a CRF engine.
Same thing goes for the Yamaha.
If you are working with the same two engines........even when you meet the CRF power output..........you still are only going to go so far.............
When you are maxed out on your Honda, you will still be building power [and more of it] with the Yamaha.
Same thing goes for the Yamaha.
If you are working with the same two engines........even when you meet the CRF power output..........you still are only going to go so far.............
When you are maxed out on your Honda, you will still be building power [and more of it] with the Yamaha.
#84
01-31-2004, 02:25 AM
The Facility
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 4,062
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#85
01-31-2004, 02:30 AM
How come honda builds lackluster motors?
Look at some blueprints of a CRF engine and a TRX450R engine side by side. They are not very similar, for real, take a gander. It's not the same engine, at all. It's totally different. You can't compare CRF mods to the new 450R, the engines are not the same.
#86
01-31-2004, 03:19 AM
How come honda builds lackluster motors?
Originally posted by: 14mins
crblick- Honda might have built machines in the PAST to be modified but that will not be the case with the unicorn crf450. In fact i think Honda does not want any aftermarket support (besides the own HRC stuff) anymore.
I think honda sits on there butts nowadays. They earned the reputation on relibility back in the 80's with some of there fourtrax line and others. NOT MUCH CAN BREAK on a fourtrax 300. Low powered/no real suspension/NO FRILLS line of quads. The newer stuff is no better than the rest of them. At any given time there will be more 400ex's that will not start over raptors. there were issues with 400ex starting, cracking rear swing arms and what happens when you bend the factory rear grab bar.
Yes i am well aware Yamaha screwed us on the 2001 raptor tranny 3 years ago. I fully expect to break parts the way i modd my stuff wether it be a yamaha, Kawaski, suzuki, honda or what ever other brand if there are any.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
I think it has more to do with the expired 10 year thing than anything. That seemed to hurt them more than the other makers.
Compared to the yamaha 450 the honda is way overpiced at 400 dollars less. No FCR carb, electric start............
crblick- Honda might have built machines in the PAST to be modified but that will not be the case with the unicorn crf450. In fact i think Honda does not want any aftermarket support (besides the own HRC stuff) anymore.
I think honda sits on there butts nowadays. They earned the reputation on relibility back in the 80's with some of there fourtrax line and others. NOT MUCH CAN BREAK on a fourtrax 300. Low powered/no real suspension/NO FRILLS line of quads. The newer stuff is no better than the rest of them. At any given time there will be more 400ex's that will not start over raptors. there were issues with 400ex starting, cracking rear swing arms and what happens when you bend the factory rear grab bar.
Yes i am well aware Yamaha screwed us on the 2001 raptor tranny 3 years ago. I fully expect to break parts the way i modd my stuff wether it be a yamaha, Kawaski, suzuki, honda or what ever other brand if there are any.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
I think it has more to do with the expired 10 year thing than anything. That seemed to hurt them more than the other makers.
Compared to the yamaha 450 the honda is way overpiced at 400 dollars less. No FCR carb, electric start............
14mins- I think you have finally made a good point, I have not lost all fate in honda yet, but they need to do something fast instead of living in the past.
(Finally u didn't bash on something for no apparent reason)
#87
01-31-2004, 03:38 AM
#88
01-31-2004, 10:19 AM
How come honda builds lackluster motors?
Ok, Once again the Yammi fans are talking out their rears. Let's not forget a key piece of information everyone is overlooking about the 450R. It is by far a better all around quad than anything Yamaha has put out to this day- Including the YFZ. Let's take a look at the facts.
YFZ- Slightly faster- Made for MX and Sand. For people 5'10 and under weighing up to 180-190lbs. The powerband and stock setup is not for trails, and those who do ride the trails end up with sore rear ends and more rider fatigue. Yeah, Yeah - Here comes the person posting "I'm 6'3 and 300 and the YFZ is comfortable" to this I say whatever.
Raptor- Fast in a straight line- Has reverse (needed because it handles like crap compared to a 400ex,z400, etc.) I don't see this quad on the MX track, hmmm - I wonder why. It doesn't dominate on trails- it dominates on trails like it does on the track- NOT...
Banshee- Fast in a straight line- Thats it.
The Yammi quads are purpose built- That is hard to argue even for the most die hard Yammi fan. You can argue, but it makes little sense.
All three are good quads depending on what you plan to do with them, but they are not the best all around sport quad.
The 450R will be fast and handle on the track, dunes, trails etc. Yes, it could have used electric start and reverse. Two minor faults, there is room for performance. It is quite possible that Honda owners want a quad that will very good if not the best in all areas. The 450R is the closest quad to this present day.
If Kawasaki or Suzuki come out with their 450 next yr and it has electric start, reverse, power and handling. Then it could be the BEST ALL AROUND SPORT QUAD. Notice I didn't say, MX or Straight line Racer. But for now the 450R is the best all around SPORT QUAD. With the Z400 and KFX400 a close second. That could easily change next year. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
YFZ- Slightly faster- Made for MX and Sand. For people 5'10 and under weighing up to 180-190lbs. The powerband and stock setup is not for trails, and those who do ride the trails end up with sore rear ends and more rider fatigue. Yeah, Yeah - Here comes the person posting "I'm 6'3 and 300 and the YFZ is comfortable" to this I say whatever.
Raptor- Fast in a straight line- Has reverse (needed because it handles like crap compared to a 400ex,z400, etc.) I don't see this quad on the MX track, hmmm - I wonder why. It doesn't dominate on trails- it dominates on trails like it does on the track- NOT...
Banshee- Fast in a straight line- Thats it.
The Yammi quads are purpose built- That is hard to argue even for the most die hard Yammi fan. You can argue, but it makes little sense.
All three are good quads depending on what you plan to do with them, but they are not the best all around sport quad.
The 450R will be fast and handle on the track, dunes, trails etc. Yes, it could have used electric start and reverse. Two minor faults, there is room for performance. It is quite possible that Honda owners want a quad that will very good if not the best in all areas. The 450R is the closest quad to this present day.
If Kawasaki or Suzuki come out with their 450 next yr and it has electric start, reverse, power and handling. Then it could be the BEST ALL AROUND SPORT QUAD. Notice I didn't say, MX or Straight line Racer. But for now the 450R is the best all around SPORT QUAD. With the Z400 and KFX400 a close second. That could easily change next year. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
#89
01-31-2004, 12:33 PM
How come honda builds lackluster motors?
Originally posted by: TellicoGrizz660
KNOWSALOT, You are absolutely 100% correct on that post!!!! Thats the best post yet about this topic!!!! Owning MODIFIED yzf dirtbikes, I know for a fact that the honda with the EXACT mods that I have to my bike will produce less power!!!!!! After all honda did build their 450 to compete with yamaha's "426"!!!!!! Before these 4 strokes were built, all we had for pure MX racing was 2 strokes!!! The yamaha offers that kind or a power hit with the reliability and low end grunt in a 4 stroke engine!!!!!!! It seems to me that YAMAHA here recently has been the one to build the machine to have the other companies scrambling around to produce something to match it!!! Examples..........Rincon, TRX450R, CRF450R, CRF250r, etc!!! Course Yamaha isnt ALWAYS first either, but it seems Honda is playing catch up instead of the other companies!!!!! Another thing, Yamaha offers more products than honda does in the sports machines categories, compare this......
Yamaha:
1. Warrior
2. Banshee
3. Blaster
4. Raptor
5. Wolverine
6. YFZ450
Honda:
1. 300EX
2. 400EX
3. TRX450R
4. 250EX
Suzuki:
1. Z400
Polaris:
1. Scramblers
2. Predator
Kawi:
1. Lakota 300
2. Mojave
3. KXF400
4. VForce
and so on......get the point, look at the machines Yamah offers!!!
Originally posted by: KNOWSALOT
One fact still remains.................
Both the YZ450F and CRF450R bikes have been out for over two years and "built vs built" the Honda 450 can't come close. The Honda just doesn't having the building potential as the Yamaha. Go to any dirtbike forum board and you will find none that disagree with this fact.
The TRX450R and YFZ450 have these same basic engines, so I don't see the scenario being any different with the quads.
And as far as Sparks and others being able to extract power..............nonsense.
All the ATV companies do is copy the same product and procedures that were implemented by the dirtbike companies.
Thumper racing made a living doing modified XR400Rs and didn't even touch ATV engines at the time........and then when the 400EX came out, the ATV companies jumped on the bandwagon.
Same thing with Yoshimura and the DRZ........WE all know where the Z400 mods came from.
Oh......................It's true
One fact still remains.................
Both the YZ450F and CRF450R bikes have been out for over two years and "built vs built" the Honda 450 can't come close. The Honda just doesn't having the building potential as the Yamaha. Go to any dirtbike forum board and you will find none that disagree with this fact.
The TRX450R and YFZ450 have these same basic engines, so I don't see the scenario being any different with the quads.
And as far as Sparks and others being able to extract power..............nonsense.
All the ATV companies do is copy the same product and procedures that were implemented by the dirtbike companies.
Thumper racing made a living doing modified XR400Rs and didn't even touch ATV engines at the time........and then when the 400EX came out, the ATV companies jumped on the bandwagon.
Same thing with Yoshimura and the DRZ........WE all know where the Z400 mods came from.
Oh......................It's true
Yamaha:
1. Warrior
2. Banshee
3. Blaster
4. Raptor
5. Wolverine
6. YFZ450
Honda:
1. 300EX
2. 400EX
3. TRX450R
4. 250EX
Suzuki:
1. Z400
Polaris:
1. Scramblers
2. Predator
Kawi:
1. Lakota 300
2. Mojave
3. KXF400
4. VForce
and so on......get the point, look at the machines Yamah offers!!!
Plus Yamaha just builds quads to fit anybody's life style. Honda Builds them and Honda owners build them to there own lifestyle. So pretty much honda's need mods right away just to give the stock Yamaha a run for it's money. Let's face it Honda owners, yamaha at least puts an effort into building quads to fit the buyers wants and needs.
#90
01-31-2004, 12:36 PM