Honda sales IMO will not catch up with the number of yamaha 450's sold. 6 to 8 months head start will be extremely hard to overcome. Not enough people to go around. The 400ex sold great because that was the best thing for years to come out. Then the raptor enjoyed the same success. Around here the yamaha 450 has not sold in the same numbers as the raptor. 4 years of raptors have produced a lot of sales. I know of guys wanting a yamaah 450 but have to live with there raptors another year. A open minded person will buy the yamaha 450 over the honda IMO for a few reasons.

Yamaha 450 has more power, electric start, FCR, TI valves etc and will probably get a few hundred off of list. The Honda dealer will not drop much if any for a while and consumer is not going to like the kick start. That might appeal to the 18-24 crowd but the older crowd seems to spend more money. Of course if the 18-24 crowd can get finacing who knows

Honda should have put electric start on at least. Not everybody hangs out at the MX track but they want a quad that can.

The only sales niche i see that would be a good source for the new honda would be the canondale owners that are ready to get a reliable quad and 400ex owners that waited until the new honda was released. But they lived for years on the 400 ex and i doubt they are going to dump them in mass quanities to get the new 450.

Honda was late and it is going to cost them. If buyers pick up any of the magazines that will not help sales either.

Knowalot- Do you know how many total units Honda and yamaha sold last year? Just wondering if Blue is narrowing the gap? Trying to find sales numbers is harder than a good dyno sheet[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

I see now.LOL

Well, I can say that parts pricing relates to a few different things.
Being a parts manager for 10 years has showed the ugly side of this industry to me. It's nothing really bad, if you are a business man. It's just hard for most average consumers to relate to.

I could go all day into speciffics, but I'll lay out a sample here and you be the judge.

Honda pays CMP $30 for a rear rack for a Foreman450
Honda sells the rack to dealers for $60 [dealer cost]
The dealer sells the rack for $100 to YOU, the consumer
The dealer just made a $40 profit.....so far.
The dealer pays 3% commision on the retail sale to the guy behind the counter........$3
The dealer than pays the parts manager a 2% commision.......$2
Parts from the OEMs suh as racks ome alone in one box. Tack on another $10 from the dealer's pocket for shipping.

So.........Honda made $30........The Dealer $25[after payouts]......Saleman made $3.......and the Parts Manager $2

With so many people involved, it's no wonder parts prices are so high.I'm not complaining though[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]


Nearly all the chassis componets of the 400EX are US sourced and have a lower overall cost to everyone involved in the chain.

Then you have the dealers themselves. They usually go one of two routes......Volume sales of low retail cost parts or the small guy who just goes the traditional route of "buy it or don't buy it"

Both ways work equally as well.........but you normally get better service from the guy in the middle of these two. Your volume dealers normally have an employee turnaround rate that's ridiculous because he doesn't hire anyone who is truly in the field and doesn't pay any better than the McDonalds down the street.

I've gotten completly off track here. I'll shut up now.

 

14,

I can get ahold of the raw data of registered quads last year in the states from the Big4 and post it up tomorrow night.
Heck, I may throw the dirtbike numbers in there too.

I don't have access to the worldwide sales figures.

You only see them when a manufacturer wants you to........in other words....a good year.....LOL

 

14mins - here to ruin yet another thread?

At 30 years old apparently I am getting too old to kick, according to you [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]... The crowd I ride/race with is 30-35 years old and none of us are being scared off by the kick (especially the easy kick and 1st kick starting) of the 450r - and none of us race MX (although we do participate in practically all other forms of ATV racing). Some of us have chosen the Honda and some have chosen the Yamaha - all for different reasons.

Open minded people will analyze their options and choose which fits their needs better based on facts & not what some person who doesn't own either, hasn't ridden both, and has some strange vendetta against Honda has to say about the two.

FWIW, it's easier to kick & get my 450R started than it is to start my electric 400EX, especially in the cold. The 450R has a good fast idle circuit and starts quickly.. I also know that I'll never have a problem at a race due to a electric start system failure again (has happened about 5 times over the last 4 years for various reasons). Some YFZ owners at the 12hrs of America had to deal with electric system issues already, as well.

Carburetor issue - FCR's are great, I have two for my other quads. The 42mm carb on the 450R isn't NEARLY as bad as you have made it out to be. First, it's not a CV carb. 2nd, it responds great - the 450R has throttle response like our Cannondale Moto. 3rd - Honda didn't use the FCR due to their safety concerns - if you've ever bought an FCR, you'll know what I am talking about....

Yamaha got around this by adding the TORS circuit. One complaint I got an e-mail about from a top GNCC champion who switched to a YFZ late last season was how to deal with the YFZ's firm throttle pull. The 450R has a nice, light throttle pull. Maybe Honda didn't do such a bad thing by choosing a larger carb to flow as well as an FCR without the safety issues and/or workarounds. Of course, you don't think things thru that far or have the experience to consider such things, do you?

I could comment on TI valves, head design, power output, etc, but it's already been done to death....

It's great that we have the choice now. If electric means that much to you, you can buy a YFZ. If you'd rather not have all the BS & possible reliability problems of an e-start, you can go with the 450R It seems changing to a kicker on the YFZ is not a very good idea from what I've seen. Choices are good & I am personally as happy as can be to see both these models selling well.

Neither quad is a bad choice and both will do well in the market - who of us really has any reason to care which happens to end up selling more units unless we're wanting data to feed a flame fest? Both will hurt sales of the LTZ clones to all but those that feel they "need" reverse - who probably don't really need a YFZ or 450R anyhow....

 

1986250r- You are the most insucure person i have seen lately on this site. I see no where in my post that MY OPINION is going to ruin this thread.
Vent your frustration on your kick start 450 and it will start on the first kick every time. BTW i never saw where you posted laterulas's phone number.


Thanks knowsalot. I am sure you have seen it all. The parts prices some times makes no sence. Plastic for the raptor is high in my opinion and then xx part seems underpriced

 

His phone number is listed on the front page of the site - posting it isn't necessary if you really want to call.

www.gtthunder.com - I want to hear what he says so make sure and transcript it.

 

You guys really need to relax. 14 always throws something in to bust your *****, and you take the bait. Chill guys, it's all good[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

Not insecure - just one of the few that has data and experience to shoot your claims down - I understand your frustration.... Those are the kinds of responses you get when you make a certain reputation for yourself. Deal with it.

If you post wrong and/or info that is inaccurate or flawed - then be prepared to have people post responses. Pretty simple concept.

Lazarus's phone number isn't too difficult to find - do I really need to hold your hand or is that a project you can handle yourself?

 

I have been told repeatedly from somewhat reliable sources that the engine from the 400ex is actually from briggs and stratton. Of course, as we all know, people are full of it.

 

And homo's drive trucks with 305's.... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]