Four strokes are for guys who like to be milked by the aftermarket. Simple Tube headers going back to a muffler cost as much as two carefully designed chambers made to pull extra mixture into the chamber then shape an energy wave and bounce it back to push extra mix back into the cylinder for a forced induction like effect. Four stroke exhausts just make fart sounds and let gasses out. Then of course you have to buy cams, valves, and have the head ported to get the same effect porting alone gives a two stroke. When all thats done you buy some thousand dollar carbs and throw money at builders saying "make it bigger somehow, its still slow".

 

thumper=torque curve
2 stroke=power curve

wich is faster in a race?
torque get you there,HP keep you there.

 

If thumpers are so great how come they need twice the cc's to compete with a 2 stroke? Not to mention that the thumper engine costs 3x as much to maintain/build as a 2 stroke. 2 strokes are just the first victim of environmental wackos and wont be the last. I am coming to the conclusion that the wackos knew how loud thumpers would have to be to compete with 2 strokes and that will be the next thing they attack. Do I like my ktm 400? yes very much, its easilly the sweetest bike i own. but if i could have bought a e-start, legal in ca 2 stroke, I would have. My CR500 with its custom made 34oz flywheel weight, makes more torque than any thumper Ive ever been on.

 

2004LEBANSHEE....First off...Don't get your panties in a bunch...You shee guys take it sooo hard...Yes 58 horses...It is a mild low compression build on pump gas. I didn't feel it necessary to build a 80 h.p. Rappy.Second...If you dump 2 grand into a shee, it is good for NOTHING but going in a straight line...Those are the guys who truck their bikes to the hill and truck em back to camp...oh what fun. I like to RIDE my quad. It dunes all day long, smokes plenty of BUILT shees, then takes me back home. I've had that build with over 620 hill passes and over 250 striaght line passes and aint even checked my plug yet. It runs ALL day on a tank of good ol 87 octane pump gas and all I have to do is push a button to make it start. Oh and I can go backwards too. I never have to let it COOL down, cause my radiator keeps it at the right temp all day...Anyways...My point on the shees is Yes they will be around for a LONG time...However the places to ride them will be limited more and more as time goes on....It all boils down to preferance. I have friends who have shees and my brother still has his Honda 250r quad...I ride them and I don't like them. It is just my opinion. They are noisy and stinky. I will say though that the good part about the shee is it's a YAMAHA. It was the bike that took them over the top when every other builder sucked out. It was a great quad for 20 some years and will be around for 20 more.

 

mywifesquad ,I saw the bikes you've owned and I have to tell you I got to ride my buddies CR250. I broke my rule and let him ride my V and I got to ride his CR. ALMOST big mistake!!! He told me that when it came on the pipe to watch out, things get wild. Man did they!!! I got a little cocky, and clicked it into 5 gear and came up on a turn too fast and almost had to buy the CR from my friend!!!! Almost packed it up over a cliff!!!!
I forgot how fast two strokes were until I rode one again.
Engine for engine, mod for mod, weight for weight a two stroke will eat a four stroke.
If I hit the lotto I would want to build a 500 inch big block two stroke for a drag car. Now that would be fun!! To bad race tracks give them a cc break.
I totally agree with you JakalWarrior. I would guess that it takes 4 times the work to make an Ex chamber over a tube header. Whats up with that? Same price??!!! Pop a piece of pipe in a CNC bender push a button, dip it or plate it and your done!!! Same price as a Ex chamber though? Someones making $$$$$$$.

 

mywifesquad,
1985 was the first, and most powerful, year of the CR500. Honda mellowed it out each year after that because the '85 was such a beast that most people could not ride it. I owned an '85 CR500, and remember finishing every desert race feeling like a limp dish rag that had been drug behind the bike for the last fifty miles. And I remember winning my first desert race, on my very first race on a new '87 CR500 that I replaced the '85 CR500 with. The '87 was soooo much easier to ride that it didn't beat you to death at all. I had obviously gone faster on the '87, yet felt like I could have raced the entire hundred miles over again. Anyway, ... nice collection of bikes you have there. I wonder how the torque of your CR500 would compare to my KTM 525 MXC?

DesertViper.

 

hey stallion, if you put 2 grand into only motor mods it will go strait but if you put some of it into the frame it will still spank you.


More importantly.... so whats your total cost on your raptor?? im talking everything. give me a tally of the cost to buy it, the maintnence parts youve paid to replace, the cost of the accessories you have put on it ( if you didnt do the install yourself ad the labor costs you had to pay. basically how much money has come out of your pocket to make the empty space in your garage a modded raptor.

I ride my Quadzilla everywhere I live in newengland so theres no dune or drag racing. I ride mine through the woods (basically comperable to GNCC corses in terrain). So ill give you my total cost, ill even split it up for you a bit.

Total cost $3,400

Quadzilla off ebay $1700
Shipping $ 500
Cost of mechanic work, replaced parts, accessories $1200

Outcome: Way less then you spent and still spank your Raptor anywhere $3400



To everybody else. I was actually doing a little thinking about the whole situation and what would really help us, although I have not the slightetst idea if it would ever happen, is to see bombardier come out with a 2 stroke ATV to compete with the all new 450 race bikes. Bombardier owns evinrude (makes new efficent two stroke outboards) and their sled line is moving to all emissions passing two strokes. They obviously have already invested in R&D for keeping two strokes alive in those two fields so why not ATVs. They have the DS650 which is in the raptor catigory and everybody but them will soon have a 450 racer. I guarentee you if they produced a 250 racing quad that the other companies would loose a lot of buisness and would invest in their own R&D for them. The evinrude two stroke outboards are tearing up all the new four stroke motors. They are cheaper to buy, have a 3 year guarentee on them, and outperform, and underwiegh all their competition.

 

Itallion Stallion;
Loved those videos bro!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Looks like a pretty fast Rappy too!


Yeah, I'd definately like to see 2-strokes continuing to thrive, and builders to put more time into design, and research, but I'm afraid its just not going to happen. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img]

 

i have 2 stroke i love it but i hate as wall

 

Hey Stallion,
Great vids man. I am still laughing. You got to have a sense of humor when you wipe out or you'll hurt a lot worse the next day. Love the Raptor too.
The bottom line is no matter what we ride, 2-stroke or 4-stroke, We ride to have fun. You guys can **** on each other all day here in the forums, but I'm pretty sure when you're out riding, you don't think about what somebody that lives 1500 miles away said on this forum.