my friend had it on the local dyno and it pulled with almost 50hp. not exhaust and no commander unit. but it had teh K&N i have no idea what kind. ne ways i rode it, i didnt liek the power compared to mine, but when i raced him i beat him everytime but he was close. so if im pushing 53 and he says he is 50 and he was close behind me. he jsut had trouble keeping the front end down in the hard launches. but CT claims almost 50 with their pipe and EFI unit on the 700r, and this guy is the same with the stock exhaust jsut have the baffle removed??? i vouche for it, its right in the 49ish hp range on the stock pipe, from a reputable dyno....kenz cycle tech.

 

I guess I am just confused on how the stock exhuast is making equal power with a aftermarket exhaust. I didnt realize that the stock 700 exhaust really isnt that bad with the cork removed. I know on the yfz, when you remove the baffle from it, its doesnt make near the power as the aftermarket exhausts!
Ct is claiming close to 50 horse with there exhaust and efi unit, as is people like hmf. This is also what I have seen and heard from private parties. SO WHY PAY ALL THE MONEY ON AFTERMARKET EXHAUSTS WHEN THE STOCKER IS PUTTING OUT AS GOOD OF NUMBERS???? Thats my only question??? Your only going to get sound and looks...............

 

Going from my stock exhaust no sparky, to my HMF full pipe made a huge difference,

 

Thats what I would think too, but this guy is supposively running the same horse as you with his stocker.......??????

 

Please no one take this the wrong way I'm not trying to put anyone’s choice of parts down here. I'm just trying to clarify so we can get as close as possible to comparing apples to apples. If I'm missing something here by all means point it out. This will be of benefit to all 700R owners.

On the dyno sheet I saw on another forum published by an employee of HMF, they tested the 700R stock and with their system and the Doebeck on the dyno with Knobbies and the numbers were low like 36 RWHP stock and 46 with their system.

All the other dyno tests were done with slicks, and we all know you will not only get better numbers with slicks but also more consistent and accurate results. The Dyno graphs I've seen with slicks put the HP at 42 to 43 HP bone stock with no tuning and anywhere from 49.5 to 51.5 RWHP with an open air box, high flow filter, AM Exhaust system and an EFI controller. The best DYNO numbers I've seen on a 700R with an HMF system, open air box, high flow filter and a PCIII USB were 49.5 The Trinity and the CT racing pipes claim 50 RWHP and the LTE duals claim 51.5 with a sent back to Doebeck and remapped controller that was again maxed out and considered border line for the potential to mapp for further gains.

There always will be a few engines that are identical in parts that make more power. I have no explanation for that but I have seen it time and time again over the years
It sounds like CTracinraptor friend got one of those, no sarcasm intended here.


Sikraptor have you had your 700R dynoed with the Doebeck unit? If so what are your numbers?

I am very curious as to the difference in HP potential with different EFI controllers & between stock and different brands of exhaust systems.

 

A little info about dynos and dyno graphs.

First: The vast majority of dyno charts in literature are "Advertising
Dynos". Once a manufacturer states: "A 5 HP increase with our pipe..."
that sets the watermark for others to post above...."6 more" "7 more" "12
more" and so on.
Plenty of those charts are done on Excel spread sheet programs and are
generated by feeding in whatever numbers the manufacturer wishes to see.
Many dyno charts aren't even made on dynos!!
Another way a dyno graph may be misleading is when a pipe is tested in
conjunction with an open style intake using a K&N filter. This is all well
and good and does indeed produce more power in most cases. The problem is
that if you do not use that style of intake those numbers are not valid or
accurate for your set up. If a company uses a special fuel and open intake
system when posting dyno numbers for their pipe, it means nothing unless
they divulge that information and you also are using that fuel and intake
system.
There are also several different brands of dynos on the market as well as
different types of dynamometers.
The most prevalent dyno in our sport is the DynoJet inertia dyno. That is
the dyno owned by VCP. The DynoJet software measures the RPM via a
tachometer and calculates your final drive gearing (including your tire
diameter) by comparing engine RPM to the rotation speed of the dyno roller.
Some dynos don't automatically calculate final drive gearing and require
those parameters (including tire size) to be manually entered by the dyno
operator. This is a good way for certain companies to fudge the numbers to
result in favorable dyno readings. By entering an incorrect figure for
something as simple as tire size, inflated readings can be produced. The
dyno uses input information to calculate the graphs, so it is easily
manipulated.
There are a few details to look for as the first indicator to find an
accurate, honest dyno graph: The bottom axis must be "RPM" not "Ground Speed
or MPH".
A dyno graph should always include a Torque graph, not just a horsepower
graph. The way that torque and horsepower relate to each other means that
their lines will always cross at 5252 RPM.

HP= TQ x RPM / 5252

TQ= HP x 5252 / RPM

If a dyno graph does not follow the correct HP / TQ relationship, or even
show the RPM and torque values, the graph is be immediately suspect of
tampering.

Seeing torque on a graph is as important as HP. Torque is literally
"twisting force" and is what the dyno measures. HP is basically a "speed"
or "rate" applied to the torque reading. Throttle response and lower RPM
pull are directly linked to torque. Top end is linked to horsepower. You
can't run at top end horsepower until the torque pulls you to it. Below 5252
RPM information on a dyno is torque dominant. After 5252 the graph is HP
dominant. If the graph doesn't have a HP and TQ line, only half of the
information is presented.

In motor sports other than our own, it is common and expected to give
readings known as Power Averages. These are done by adding up either the HP
or TQ readings at 100 or 200 RPM increments from the entire dyno run and
then dividing the total number by the number of readings taken. The end
number is the power average for that engine. This is the best way to tell
what engine combination has the most overall power, not merely a measure of
peak power. This type of reading takes into account how early the torque
comes in and how late the HP hangs on, a MUCH better indicator of overall
engine performance than peak HP numbers alone.

Another important thing to remember is that the only dyno runs that are
directly comparable are dyno runs done on the SAME DYNO, SAME DAY, SAME
MACHINE, SAME CORRECTION FACTOR.

Which brings the topic of correction factors. What are they??

Correction factors are formulas that take into account the atmospheric
variables that influence engine power output such that dyno runs done under
different conditions are "corrected" to approximately equal values.
These formulas take into account pressure, temperature, and humidity. The
idea is when the raw uncorrected dyno numbers are applied in the formula, it
corrects them to a given standard set of conditions, such as 70 degrees F,
at sea level pressure, with no humidity. This makes dyno runs taken under
different conditions semi comparable.
There are several engineering groups that all have their own version of
what the perfect correction formula is. SAE DIN JAP STD are among
the most prevalent groups with their own approved formulas.
The different groups that make these correction factors all have slightly
different biases given to the factors. This means that the end results are
slightly different with each formula used. STD generally gives a slightly
higher reading than the other formulas and as such is usually the one
selected for dyno print outs in our sport. When comparing before and after
results, the correction factor should be noted.
In reading a dyno graph, one must consider the percentage increases, TQ and
HP, at each RPM level to get an idea of how the graph would be translated
into actual ride "feel". These will be arbitrary numbers just for
illustration purposes......
Two dyno runs; one with 45 and one with 47 HP at 8,000 RPM peak. 47 is 4%
more HP than 45. Now, compare torque at 4500 RPM. The machine that made 47
HP has 20 FT Lbs TQ at 4500, and the 45 HP machine has 22 FT Lbs TQ at same
RPM. 22 is 10% more than 20. 10% more during acceleration to peak is a
huge advantage. Where as 4% more HP at only one point is actually of only
minimal importance.
Riders and consumers need to learn to read the whole graph to get the whole
story instead of the small part of the story manufacturers want to tell.


sorry it's so long.

 

Interesting stuff [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Love my 700R [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Mods listed below

 

That was good info you just posted. On a side note, just because something claims +8 horse does not always mean to the peak. It could be in the bottom or mid range, where its getting that big gain.
My yfz for example, with its current setup is running mid 50's. Guys with 480 and 520 kits are only running a few more peak horse then me, but there low and mid range, especially, are out of this world in comparison to mine! I would get slottered!!!!!!!!
There are a few guys with stock bores that have accurate peak numbers of 58 horse. WHo do you thinks going to win, the stock bore with 58, or the 480/520 guys. I am bettin on the 480/520 guys, when you see how much more power they are making then a stock bore in the low and mid range!
Just though I should add that, I think its relivent in this discussion, as I see a lot of people magazine shopping thinking that if the prodesign intake says +6 horse, and the exhaust says +14.....then I just got an automatic 20 horse jump in peak power. THAT IS NOT THE CASE! If I went magazine shopping for my 700 or my yfz, with simple bolt ons I should have about 80-100 horse for both by now, if you where to go off there advertising horsepower increase!!!! ha ha

 

I'll add my $.02. I removed the arrestor from my 700 a couple weeks ago and it made a noticeable difference. Shortly after I raced a 700 with a CT pipe, Dobeck, and an aftermarket filter (not sure which) up test hill at Gordons. I imagine the above upgrade would run about 800 bucks. We were close out of the whoops, I had about 1/4 to 1/2 a bike on him, at the top of the hill he had 1/2 to 2/3 a bike length on me. Now, I dont know if the controller was programmed properly but that certainly was an increase in power worth 800 bucks to me. It has made me very hesitant to do the controller, pipe and filter mod as I dont want to spend that much money and get that little performance.