<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Raptor450

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: recon99



I'd hold up on that oil change. Not everyone agrees on this, but many people think, and I agree on the thought that many automotive oils have additives that will make the wet clutch slip. Some say they use auto oils and have no problems, but for the little bit more that it costs for something designed to be compatible with wet clutches, I don't take the chance. It's your call.







I wouldn't mess with the spark plug. I never experimented with that, but the standard d8ea works fine for me so I don't see a need.</end quote></div>



So what kind of oil are you supposed to use? I have always used Havoline 10W40 in all my bikes, but ever since I installed the 446 in this one my clutches have always slipped a little. I just installed new clutch plates, friction plates and springs last week and even the new clutches were slipping a little bit. I was pissed I just spent 100 freakin' dollars and that wasn't even the problem! If I go with the correct oil, and my clutches stop slipping this will prove the wet clutch theory.</end quote></div>



This is a subject that if you ask 10 people, you may get 10 different opinions. From what i've seen, certain oils definitely do cause clutch slippage. Some people will say that it doesn't make a bit of difference. One thing that causes the slippage is oil with moly in it. This additive is supposed to fill in imperfections in surfaces like bearings and such, so it works more smoothly and efficiently. The problem with that is it fills in the friction surfaces on the clutch and makes it slippery. There are other additives that may cause other similar complications. Either way, one thing i'm pretty sure of is any oil that's labeled as "energy conserving" has a bunch of additives in it, and should be avoided. I myself only use oils that are specifically marketed for atv's, motorcycles, and claim to be wet clutch safe. Even cheaper motorcycle oils like valvoline, which sells for around $2.49 a quart, seems to work good for me. Usually I run Silkolene, because it seems to help the transmission shift smoother, and also seems to last longer for me.

The thing that sucks is that often using the wrong oil will render your clutch useless even after you change the oil to something made for wet clutches. When the damage is done, it's done.

What kind of clutch kit did you put in? If I was running a 446 kit, something that puts out crazy torque like that, the only clutch i'd run is a DP. By far the best clutch you can get for a warrior. Expensive, yes, but the'll last forever and never slip.

 

Recon, how fast does your quad run, anyway? I noticed we are going to have very similar engine setups when I finish this up, except I will also have the WebCamshaft, and I am looking into that Wiseco piston, although I have read some bad things about them here and there, but also some good. Has yours held up really well, or what, and where did you get it at?

 

My warrior runs surprisingly well. I planned on getting a .430 webcam soon after I got my piston and had the head p&p'd, but there's always been something I needed more. I really don't need the extra power to be honest, with it set up just the way it is i'm way faster than anybody that I ride with most of the time. I can actually run very close in acceleration to a stock z400, and walk away from him on the top end due to gearing. The webcam and a dynatek cdi will probably be the last power mods I ever put on this thing, i'm very happy with the way it runs now.

I'm very pleased with my wiseco pistion. I paid $110 for mine at the local shop, and it's performed very well for me. I honestly don't have a single complaint about it. It doesn't burn oil, the engine revs twice as quick as the stock piston, and I could feel a boost in torque from it, as well as a little more top end speed from it being more free-revving. Not really a night and day difference, but a good investment at $110 and I haven't found a way to blow mine up yet, and i've had the rpm's high enough to float the valves on more than one occasion. I don't think you'll be disappointed at all, I never really heard of anybody with one on a warrior that had any complaints about it.

My local shop does a lot of work with warriors, and wiseco pistons are what he puts into almost all of them and doesn't have any trouble. I trust what my shop says when it comes to the warrior, because they've built some real mean ones in the past. They have this crappy looking 87 warrior sitting in the corner of the shop for a few years that they get out every once in a while to play around. It looks completely stock, with faded cracked red, blue, and teal fenders and bent headlights and handlebars, duct taped seat, and some old holeshot tires on it. The engine is where they put the work in though, this old warrior will run down piped yfz's if the rider actually has the ***** to ride an 87 warrior with bad tires and stock suspension full throttle with that much power. It's just scary. That one doesn't have a wiseco pistion though, it's got the FST 500 kit in it, which hasn't even been made for a couple years.

 

I just wanted to add, that sometimes Wiseco does come across with a bad reputation. Usually when you hear about somebody having a problem with an aftermarket pistion, it's a wiseco. Mainly that's because Wisecos outsell all other pistons by a lot, probably about 10 to 1. They make a piston for almost every quad ever made, while most manufacturers only make them for a few models.

Another thing i've heard before is that "you get what you pay for, and wiseco pistons are cheaper for a reason". The biggest reason wiseco pistons are cheaper is because they are produced on a much larger scale than a company like JE or CP, so the costs go down. Given, sometimes wiseco piston designs aren't quite AS researched and optimized, dome designs for instance. But on an old 2-valve head like this, that's a non-issue.

 

Well, I found a 10.25:1 Wiseco standard 83mm bore piston w/ rings & circlip for $85shipped on eBay. Anyone have any objections? If not, I am going to go ahead and order that too.

 

Actually, I found a kit with all the top end gaskets for $105, and I am thinking that will be the way to go, unless you guys think I could replace the gaskets for less.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: recon99

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Raptor450



<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: recon99







I'd hold up on that oil change. Not everyone agrees on this, but many people think, and I agree on the thought that many automotive oils have additives that will make the wet clutch slip. Some say they use auto oils and have no problems, but for the little bit more that it costs for something designed to be compatible with wet clutches, I don't take the chance. It's your call.















I wouldn't mess with the spark plug. I never experimented with that, but the standard d8ea works fine for me so I don't see a need.</end quote></div>







So what kind of oil are you supposed to use? I have always used Havoline 10W40 in all my bikes, but ever since I installed the 446 in this one my clutches have always slipped a little. I just installed new clutch plates, friction plates and springs last week and even the new clutches were slipping a little bit. I was pissed I just spent 100 freakin' dollars and that wasn't even the problem! If I go with the correct oil, and my clutches stop slipping this will prove the wet clutch theory.</end quote></div>







This is a subject that if you ask 10 people, you may get 10 different opinions. From what i've seen, certain oils definitely do cause clutch slippage. Some people will say that it doesn't make a bit of difference. One thing that causes the slippage is oil with moly in it. This additive is supposed to fill in imperfections in surfaces like bearings and such, so it works more smoothly and efficiently. The problem with that is it fills in the friction surfaces on the clutch and makes it slippery. There are other additives that may cause other similar complications. Either way, one thing i'm pretty sure of is any oil that's labeled as "energy conserving" has a bunch of additives in it, and should be avoided. I myself only use oils that are specifically marketed for atv's, motorcycles, and claim to be wet clutch safe. Even cheaper motorcycle oils like valvoline, which sells for around $2.49 a quart, seems to work good for me. Usually I run Silkolene, because it seems to help the transmission shift smoother, and also seems to last longer for me.



The thing that sucks is that often using the wrong oil will render your clutch useless even after you change the oil to something made for wet clutches. When the damage is done, it's done.



What kind of clutch kit did you put in? If I was running a 446 kit, something that puts out crazy torque like that, the only clutch i'd run is a DP. By far the best clutch you can get for a warrior. Expensive, yes, but the'll last forever and never slip.</end quote></div>

I had Curtis Sparks Raptor 660 fiber plates with Warrior metal plates. I installed all Warrior EBC Dirt Diggers. After comparing fiber plates I wish I would have gotten the 660 fiber plates because they have way more surface area than the Warrior plates. If I ruined them with the wrong oil I guess that's what I will go back with.

 

I believe the FST 500 kit included a wiseco piston(at least most of his newer kits do include the wiseco piston in them. I would check your measurements of your stock cylinder to make sure they are not out of specs before ordering the standard bore in case you do need to go .20 or .25 over that way you dont end up having to buy more than one piston kit.

As far as oil causing problems with the wet clutch I can attest to it causing slippage on one for me I ended up having to change it several times before the clutches wore enough to stop slipping again(usually only under a hard load or heavy throttle is when they would slip).

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: beefy46172

Actually, I found a kit with all the top end gaskets for $105, and I am thinking that will be the way to go, unless you guys think I could replace the gaskets for less.</end quote></div>

Sounds like a good deal to me. The last time I bought top end gaskets the kit was $35 for EVERY gasket in the top end. Sorry for butting in on your thread, but I have been stumped over this clutch slipping since I rode on Sunday and you guys may have solved my mystery.

 

I'd be hesitant to go with a standard bore as well, i'd go with at least a .20 over piston, that thing is almost 8 years old so it's bound to have some cylinder wear by now.

Did that kit say what kind of gaskets they were? Most likely cheap-o's for that price. I for one don't take chances with cheap stuff like that, because it would be... inconvenient to have to tear the whole thing apart because you cheaped out on gaskets. The only gaskets i'll ever put into my machine are Cometic or Vesrah gaskets. There's nothing I hate more than trying to save money, and ending up with cheap useless crap that doesn't work right or doesn't fit properly, and in the end having to spend more anyways.


- I also wanted to add that Four Stroke Tech actually recommends using a stock warrior clutch, with an extra steel plate in the pack, and stiffer springs. I personally would still be using a DP clutch if I had a 446. I actually wanted to put a DP clutch in my warrior when the stock one started slipping, but just couldn't justify spending 3 times as much when a standard EBC clutch was sufficient.