very cool, this is what its all about and gets us the info we want, king thanks for stepping up and lyle way to go, friendly competition

 

KOTH... Memeorial Day Sand Mtn, NV.
KOTH... Little Sahara, Utah's Sand Mtn Labor day.
There's class's for cc size and an unlimited class.
These are twice the size of that ant hill at Glamis.....

 

I nevered cared which one was faster( trinity or sparks ) because mine is not "high strung". I am sure that any builder will build waht you want. A little more cam...... A little higher comp........


The internet- " pain in the butt" i am sure that it is. Every business has a part to it that is a pain. I would not have my 686 if it was not for the net. I got a good basic understanding of what i felt that i needed to know, BEFORE i called the companies. I figured that would cut down on the time that the busy shops would spent with me. I have met and ridden with nermorous people on this web site. You learn to sort through the BS on here real fast. In the end you still have to make your own decisions. I do not live in "Quad racing teritory" so i can not visit the shops or the tracks.


Shops responding on the net. You have to watch what you say for sure. Bad news travels fast. Good news crawls. But it is a good way for us CONSUMERS of products to keep you honest. Is it good for business, i would think it sure helps. Trinity has sold quite a few kits to this internet crowd. I doubt that it is a big percent of sales, but should be better than no internet sales. If the internet is so bad for you, why do you have a WEB SITE?


By the way i answer my phones all day long, my number is (817) 821-
One last thought- I am impressed with sparks. It is my understanding that he DOES all the motor work himself, and i guess you do also Mickey. Some times if you want it done right you have to do it yourself. I work 80 percent alone my self and hire out the rest. But i expect more than my help will deliver, or i just do not manage well. I rely on this site because of a lack of published info from the shops. Why does no one like to show the numbers? I do not understand that.


Mickey- I went to your web site. 20,000 plus hits? That is only 1 percent? Now i now that all 20,000 plus did not place a order. It at least shows that people are interested in your products.

 

Lyle,
I appreciate your current offer to go and race the hills. However, this will not prove that your "engine" is a superior design combo or help eliminate the fuel spiking issue. I am sure that you are a good rider, that your Raptor is properly set up and that your engine runs fairly well.
The problem for your customers is that they may not be great riders, they may not know how to set up suspension and they may just be interested in a good power plant. Under those circumstances, a 4 stroke hill race will not answer their questions. A dyno run, on the other hand, will show that you have a better, equal or worse engine combo than "the less than average builders."
If I was in the market for a shop built motor, I would want to know about the engine NOT the demo rider. (People buy an engine based on the shop name not nitromethane.) I would also want to make sure that your "large bike length legend" was based on a superior engine build NOT the rider, NOT the setup and NOT the fuel. Your failure to agree to a dyno day concerns me.
As it stands, KingRaptor appeared at the race with stock carbs, a swing arm, pipe, tires and a mild 686. We know he produces 60-65hp all day long (dyno sheets are available). So, if you were able to pull the big bike lengths over a mild 686, you must have made at least 70hp or more. If I was in your position, you bet I would be at the competition's shop getting some free dyno advertisement. If I didn't, the issue of monkey fuel would always be associated with my name. I am up for both -- a dyno pull and then hill race. That will show the difference between the machine and the rider.

Mickey,
I doubt that your *** dyno predictions of the value of this site ring true although they may make you feel better. In truth, this site is a valuable tool to help readers keep up on bad products, good products, bad shops, good shops, tips, tricks and trends. Everyone I have met on this site is here for the same reason -- to share and learn. I have met many people on this site and developed many friendships. There are even a few people that I have debated that have now become a friend. Nobody reads this stuff?? This post alone has been viewed over 900 times!Unfortunately, I still have trouble with your hit and run tactics and your claim that you are just here to help. Please read your posts and try to follow what you preach.

On the topic of you learning, your comment that you only think of Curtis and TC for 4 stroke engines is odd. Sparks, TC, Powroll, Bikeworx, Trinity, FST (you), even Alan at CT and many other shops are all very qualified at building good machines. If they were not, they would be out of business. This does not mean that all shops produce the same quality or consistency of product or that one shop's head works as well as another. When you think of 4 strokes, you should also start thinking of Trinity. Didn't you know that Trinity previously won the 4 Stroke Nationals with Kory Ellis and just won the World 4 Stroke Championships at Glen Helen with Jeremy Schell on board??

On your comment that Lyle already won the race consider this: He claimed he won using a low compression, stock valved, mild 686 (aka 690) that had FCR carbs. This is the standard BS we expect to hear from the guys with the drag framed Banshees even if we know it is not true.
The problem we have with Lyle is that we all saw that he pulled a number of lengths against KingRaptors mild 686. If Lyle was telling the truth about his engine, I believe that he must have been producing some major hp numbers or he was using fuel. I suspect the later as I have researched many 686 motors and I know what to expect from the 686 on the dyno using gas. If he could produce 75hp on the dyno with a mild 686, I would be in line to buy his motor! I think that is why the people on this site want to see a dyno of his motor. Lyle went to the race to represent Sparks. He was there to advertise that Sparks had the fastest mild 686 on the planet and that YOU could own the same machine. He has an obligation to be truthful and to remove the cloud on his victory. His customers are not willing to plunk down some serious cash if his motor was a fluke or a fueler or not available to the general public.
Ford/Chevy -- If you don't think Ford dynos Chevys and Chevy dynos Fords, I have some snow to sell you. Lyle has gone out of his way to blast his apparent victory on this site, other sites and the Sparks web site. I agree that there were no rules for fuel at the race; however, when someone denies the fuel issue, refuses to make a confirming dyno run and attempts to use the "victory" to sell products, I have serious doubts about his/her credibility -- so should you. This is not slander. This is not a flame. This is not a "bull's eye. This is the truth.

 

I have a question... If King ran his "Trinity" 686 with stock carbs,And Lyle ran his "Sparks"686 with FCR carbs, would that not account for the difference in horsepower? I keep hearing that these Carbs give the Raptor up to 10HP!!! IF that is true, the Trinity bike should be allot closer to 70-75hp. Does anyone have the Dyno #'s for the FCR's vs. Stock carberation?


Biggerisbetter.

P.S. If you "Rappy" guys keep pissing each other off. Us DS boys aren't going to stand a chance! LOL[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

The biggest gain I've seen out of FCRs is 5 ponnies. And I've even seen them as low as 3 ponnies.

 

Got a call from Mickey Dunlop today. I was surprised that he called. But then again in one of my post i left my cell phone number. Had a 15 minute call. No earth shattering discoveries were made. His gave his thoughts on the net, other companies etc. I told him my thoughts........ He told me quite a bit of back ground on himself, racing and his and others business.



He told me that he finished a 727 raptor last week, that made great power, to much in fact.

To the rest of you that called my cell phone today, i will not loan anybody any money! Lose the number.

Depending on what you want, Mickey can probably build it for you.

 

Glad to hear you heard from Mickey. He is busy but reachable as long as you follow his guidelines. I like the way he works. I can't tell you the number of times I forget to properly finish something I was working on because I got a phone call. When you do call him after 4:00 he is focused on the phone call and not everything else going on around him.

He has a very good reputation on the East Coast. His credentials in building quads for guys who are winning GNC and GNCC events speaks for itself. Anyone with a Kodiak or a Wolverine would/should definitely consider him. He built the two bikes that helped put Mike Penland into 3rd a couple of years ago - not an easy feat.

I am planning to get Mickey to do some work for me soon. I won't be building anything too radical though since my terrain doesn't require it. Plus, I am not much into racing in a straight line. I need a durable engine and not a one race wonder as you all put it.

/NotuRaptor

 

If any engine builder thinks that this forum (or this thread, for that matter) is of little importance to their future business, consider this: I personally know of three Raptor owners (me included) who expect to send their engines out for rebuilding this fall. All of our engines are currently near 50 hp now. And all of us are eager to see a verified, dependable 70 hp engine, regardless of cost.

This forum provides us the background and direction we need in order to shop wisely.

Since Yamaha has sold over 25,000 Raptors now, I'm pretty sure there are at least a few thousand of us who are ready to step up to a stronger motor.

Maybe someone who is well-respected on the forum (kingraptor, noturaptor, raptor720, etc) should start a thread asking how many raptor owners are expecting to do an engine rebuild in the next year. It might suprise the shop owners, and even help them to gear up for future marketing and production.

So, Mr. Engine Builder, please do tell us your dyno results. Anything less makes you suspect in our eyes.

And thanks to all you riders who verify an engine builders claims on dynos and trails.

 

Seeing how Trinity gives the quickest turn-around times and the dyno charts that you want, I cast my vote that everyone on this forum sends their motors to Trinity. That solves all the problems - no more hassles -nothing else needs to be said!