Sand tires, myth or truth?
#23
07-15-2002, 02:48 AM
Hmm.. Lots of varying opinions...
My take... From an "all around" rider point of view on a 40hp machine.
I've run several different pairs of "V" paddles and straight paddles on several different bikes on numerous occasions at the dunes...
First and foremost, the straighter and/or deeper the paddle, the less they like to turn period.
I've run everything from a very shallow "V" paddle like a "Dune Slider" (which turns and slides VERY well), to Deep "V"'s like Sand Sharks (which seem to be a nice compromise between turning and acceleration), to Haulers, to custom cut Brats (which have great straight line, but do not like to turn under power).
With short "V" paddles like "Dune Sliders", you will be able to get around better than non-paddles, but won't accelerate nearly as well as someone with straight paddles like Haulers or Sand Devils. However, you can 5th gear powerslide these tires if you've got the HP. These are very fun tires to run in the sand trails where you're kicking the rear end around a lot, or if you like to drift the rear and pull sliding power wheelies - but will be a tad frustrating at the drag strip.
With Sand Sharks, forward traction is increased, but sliding is inhibited some. They still turn well, but won't slide nearly as well as the shallow "V"s. In my opinion these are decent all around dune tires. If you dune a lot, you might want to invest in some Sand Skate II's - excellent tires and a bit lighter weight than the GBC Sand Sharks.
If you want light weight medium "V"'s - check out Edges - they are a shaved and glued tire, more expensive, lighter weight, and more prone to damage and/or separation.
Haulers and Sand devils have excellent forward traction. Sand Devils are heavier (as are any molded sand tires - but are more durable and cheaper than the shaved and glued tires). However, these tires like to pick up the front under heavy throttle and don't like to break loose for a slide. They still make a good general dune tire, but are more suited to the guy that spends most of his time climbing, dragging, etc.
Brats are for High HP machines. If you're running Brats, you're probably hillshooting or drag racing and not too concerned about powersliding or whipping around in the sand trails.
I've not run Gecko's myself, but one buddy that has (experienced duner and good rider) hated his and was riding poorly all weekend until he put them in the truck and purchased a pair of Sand Skate II's from the dune shop - no more complaints from him after that. The Gecko's went on eBay later that week.
My take... From an "all around" rider point of view on a 40hp machine.
I've run several different pairs of "V" paddles and straight paddles on several different bikes on numerous occasions at the dunes...
First and foremost, the straighter and/or deeper the paddle, the less they like to turn period.
I've run everything from a very shallow "V" paddle like a "Dune Slider" (which turns and slides VERY well), to Deep "V"'s like Sand Sharks (which seem to be a nice compromise between turning and acceleration), to Haulers, to custom cut Brats (which have great straight line, but do not like to turn under power).
With short "V" paddles like "Dune Sliders", you will be able to get around better than non-paddles, but won't accelerate nearly as well as someone with straight paddles like Haulers or Sand Devils. However, you can 5th gear powerslide these tires if you've got the HP. These are very fun tires to run in the sand trails where you're kicking the rear end around a lot, or if you like to drift the rear and pull sliding power wheelies - but will be a tad frustrating at the drag strip.
With Sand Sharks, forward traction is increased, but sliding is inhibited some. They still turn well, but won't slide nearly as well as the shallow "V"s. In my opinion these are decent all around dune tires. If you dune a lot, you might want to invest in some Sand Skate II's - excellent tires and a bit lighter weight than the GBC Sand Sharks.
If you want light weight medium "V"'s - check out Edges - they are a shaved and glued tire, more expensive, lighter weight, and more prone to damage and/or separation.
Haulers and Sand devils have excellent forward traction. Sand Devils are heavier (as are any molded sand tires - but are more durable and cheaper than the shaved and glued tires). However, these tires like to pick up the front under heavy throttle and don't like to break loose for a slide. They still make a good general dune tire, but are more suited to the guy that spends most of his time climbing, dragging, etc.
Brats are for High HP machines. If you're running Brats, you're probably hillshooting or drag racing and not too concerned about powersliding or whipping around in the sand trails.
I've not run Gecko's myself, but one buddy that has (experienced duner and good rider) hated his and was riding poorly all weekend until he put them in the truck and purchased a pair of Sand Skate II's from the dune shop - no more complaints from him after that. The Gecko's went on eBay later that week.
#24
07-15-2002, 03:04 AM
Have you looked at the new maxxis sand tires yet?They are in a V pattern and a Straight.Im gonna see about ordering the straights tomorrow.They look awesome!!! I too have had the Kenda V paddles on mine,and what a dissapointment.They are great for sliding,but I had a hard time with real climbing.I also have "Turbo paddles "for my 300ex and we ran them on My 400ex, and they rocked too!!Its hard to say which is best,you wont the get best the of both worlds with just one tire unfortunalely,Its all in preference,but if you want my advice..Get the straights..
#25
07-15-2002, 03:12 AM
I personally Like my "turbo paddles"they are a straight paddle.WE also have Kenda V paddles too.WE like both of them but ,The V paddle sucked at climbing ,so im thinking on getting a new paddle for the 400ex by Maxxis for our trip to the dunes next month.They are"Maxxis Rooster" they looks bad a$$!!They come in V and straight.I dont know if they are avail. yet,but Ill find out tomorrow.Its all in preference,the V is great if you really dont plan on any major climbing they slide good, and they are a blast, but We climb big dunes around here,so I need my straights.good luck
#26
07-15-2002, 11:31 AM
TNT, You need to check around more before getting the Roosters!
I have only seen 1 set & they were on a DS, They spun hard! At the end of a 100 yard sand drag he was in 5th on the rev limiter, I was in 3rd & 4-5 lengths ahead of him with my Extremes!!
So I don't think Roosters are the way to go for a high HP quads!
I have only seen 1 set & they were on a DS, They spun hard! At the end of a 100 yard sand drag he was in 5th on the rev limiter, I was in 3rd & 4-5 lengths ahead of him with my Extremes!!
So I don't think Roosters are the way to go for a high HP quads!
#27
07-15-2002, 12:09 PM
#28
07-15-2002, 04:22 PM
After doing some of my own investigating this is what I have been told and found out. Let me also say that I have little experience with different brands of paddles and have only ridden with SkateII's and Regular Haulers.
The SkateII's are a good tough tire, but do not offer any where near the traction of the Regular Hauler. Turning wise, I did not feel too much difference, but the SkateII's were a bit easier.
I have called Sand Tires Unlimited, Rocky Mountain, Jim's Sand Toy's and David Allen Racing recently.
(MOOSE),
I spoke to all, except for Jim's, they must not open until, well who knows when. I have called them 4 times from 10:00am, 12:15pm, 1:30pm and 2:10pm and nobody ever answered.
Rocky Mountain ATV (RMatv) obviously can't give any insight they just sell you what you want, but just to let you know. They only sell the Extreme Haulers in the 20x10x10 and 21x12x8 sizes with options from 8-10 paddles. Thier prices were very good (as most of us know already), but they don't carry very many sizes. They also will not special order unless you come into the store, which is not an option for me!
David Allen Racing, located near Silver Lake, MI ride area. They have some sizes and can order any size available, but are expensive! For instance, a 22x11x10 10 paddle on Douglas .125's are $317.- OTD. This seems expensive to me considering the price RMatv, which I understand sells more volume.
Sand Tires Unlimited (STU), I spoke with Mark. Extremely knowledgeable and will spend the time it takes for you to understand how paddle size, paddle #'s, etc. works for your amount of power, swing-arm length etc. These guys (STU) have the Padla Brats. They come in a 20x11x10 with 6-9 paddles. Very light, but at the same time are durable. With my set-up (70+ rwhp Rap and +2 swing arm) he felt the 9 paddle would best suit my needs for play and dragging (50/50). They can be custom grooved which changes the weight, performance and durability. I told him that I was looking at the Extreme Haulers and asked for "his opinion". He said that the Brats would not come out of the hole as quick (as some tires on the market), but would also not give the resistance of the Haulers either. He felt that after 100' is where you would feel a big difference with these tires, as they would not give so much resistance in the mid to top end. Price and grooving option wise, he referred me to Fullerton Sand Sports who is thier ditribitor. I have not called there yet so I don't have any pricing on them yet.
So, I have done "some homework" and have found some good things.
I would like to know where I can get some competitive pricing on Extreme Haulers, allowing me to compare other prices and the Brat pricing.
Another question for the paddle goorues. Why 22" vs. 20"? What about using a 22" with 12 paddles vs. 20" with 10? The spacing should be pretty close, so what's a major difference or why should I choose one size over another?
Swy
The SkateII's are a good tough tire, but do not offer any where near the traction of the Regular Hauler. Turning wise, I did not feel too much difference, but the SkateII's were a bit easier.
I have called Sand Tires Unlimited, Rocky Mountain, Jim's Sand Toy's and David Allen Racing recently.
(MOOSE),
I spoke to all, except for Jim's, they must not open until, well who knows when. I have called them 4 times from 10:00am, 12:15pm, 1:30pm and 2:10pm and nobody ever answered.
Rocky Mountain ATV (RMatv) obviously can't give any insight they just sell you what you want, but just to let you know. They only sell the Extreme Haulers in the 20x10x10 and 21x12x8 sizes with options from 8-10 paddles. Thier prices were very good (as most of us know already), but they don't carry very many sizes. They also will not special order unless you come into the store, which is not an option for me!
David Allen Racing, located near Silver Lake, MI ride area. They have some sizes and can order any size available, but are expensive! For instance, a 22x11x10 10 paddle on Douglas .125's are $317.- OTD. This seems expensive to me considering the price RMatv, which I understand sells more volume.
Sand Tires Unlimited (STU), I spoke with Mark. Extremely knowledgeable and will spend the time it takes for you to understand how paddle size, paddle #'s, etc. works for your amount of power, swing-arm length etc. These guys (STU) have the Padla Brats. They come in a 20x11x10 with 6-9 paddles. Very light, but at the same time are durable. With my set-up (70+ rwhp Rap and +2 swing arm) he felt the 9 paddle would best suit my needs for play and dragging (50/50). They can be custom grooved which changes the weight, performance and durability. I told him that I was looking at the Extreme Haulers and asked for "his opinion". He said that the Brats would not come out of the hole as quick (as some tires on the market), but would also not give the resistance of the Haulers either. He felt that after 100' is where you would feel a big difference with these tires, as they would not give so much resistance in the mid to top end. Price and grooving option wise, he referred me to Fullerton Sand Sports who is thier ditribitor. I have not called there yet so I don't have any pricing on them yet.
So, I have done "some homework" and have found some good things.
I would like to know where I can get some competitive pricing on Extreme Haulers, allowing me to compare other prices and the Brat pricing.
Another question for the paddle goorues. Why 22" vs. 20"? What about using a 22" with 12 paddles vs. 20" with 10? The spacing should be pretty close, so what's a major difference or why should I choose one size over another?
Swy
#29
07-15-2002, 04:28 PM
The straight paddle tires are ten times better when it comes drag racing and hill climbing vs the angled paddles and in my experience there aint no two ways about it (I've owned both)! I do believe the angled paddle turns alot better though.
As far as what straight paddle preforms the best? Well the verdicts still out on that. I do know that the haulers do have glued on paddles where the skat traks are built in. But that dosent mean I would choose the skat traks over the haulers.
And as far as how many paddles to run? I would'nt buy anything more than 8 paddles unless your pumpin 65 ponnies or better, Especially if you like doing 300' sand drags. Hope this helps.
As far as what straight paddle preforms the best? Well the verdicts still out on that. I do know that the haulers do have glued on paddles where the skat traks are built in. But that dosent mean I would choose the skat traks over the haulers.
And as far as how many paddles to run? I would'nt buy anything more than 8 paddles unless your pumpin 65 ponnies or better, Especially if you like doing 300' sand drags. Hope this helps.
#30
07-15-2002, 06:04 PM
