05 kazuma 250 atv No spark condition
#1
08-29-2012, 01:02 PM
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05 kazuma 250 atv No spark condition
Ok, really new to atv's and this forum. friend of mine is paying me to get his quad up and running since im really good with cars. come to find out i dont really know much about how to test the ignition system. so, it has a no spark condition. so i need help with testing 3 things, because i have no idea how to, the coil, stator, and Cdi box. please help?!
#2
08-31-2012, 12:12 AM
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How many pins on your CDI? Six? (a 2 pin and 4 pin connector set)...
Assuming yes, the next question is if the CDI is DC powered or AC powered. The two CDIs are vastly different yet they look identical. We need to find out:
Assuming yes, the next question is if the CDI is DC powered or AC powered. The two CDIs are vastly different yet they look identical. We need to find out:
The 2 plug 6 wire CDIs come in two different designs. One is powered off 12 volts DC, and the other is powered off a moderately high voltage AC which comes from the stator. Unfortunately there is no reliable way to tell the difference between the two by just looking at them. To be sure you need to use a meter to find out which you have:
1) Unplug the CDI, and turn on the ignition. Do not crank the starter motor. Use a meter to measure the *DC* voltage on the pin labeled "AC ignition power" in the wiring harness to both ground pins in the 4 pin CDI connector. If you measure 12 volts DC then you have a DC powered CDI.
2) If you don't measure 12 volts DC on the ignition power pin, then switch the meter over to measure AC volts on the 200 volt scale. While cranking the starter motor, measure the AC voltage on the "AC Ignition Power" pin to the the Ground pin. You should see 40 to 80 volts AC. If you measure AC voltage when the starter is turning then you have an AC powered CDI.
Using a meter is the only 100% reliable way to figure out if your CDI is AC or DC powered. But there are some clues you can use that are usually (but not always) correct:
A) DC CDIs tend to be a little larger than their AC powered counterpart. This is because the DC powered CDI needs a bunch more circuitry to convert the 12 volts DC to the moderately high voltage supply that all CDIs must have.
B) Most (but not all) DC powered quad ignition systems do not use the kill switch input pin. The CDI connector pin usually has no wire tied to it. AC powered quad ignition systems usually do use the kill switch input pin.
1) Unplug the CDI, and turn on the ignition. Do not crank the starter motor. Use a meter to measure the *DC* voltage on the pin labeled "AC ignition power" in the wiring harness to both ground pins in the 4 pin CDI connector. If you measure 12 volts DC then you have a DC powered CDI.
2) If you don't measure 12 volts DC on the ignition power pin, then switch the meter over to measure AC volts on the 200 volt scale. While cranking the starter motor, measure the AC voltage on the "AC Ignition Power" pin to the the Ground pin. You should see 40 to 80 volts AC. If you measure AC voltage when the starter is turning then you have an AC powered CDI.
Using a meter is the only 100% reliable way to figure out if your CDI is AC or DC powered. But there are some clues you can use that are usually (but not always) correct:
A) DC CDIs tend to be a little larger than their AC powered counterpart. This is because the DC powered CDI needs a bunch more circuitry to convert the 12 volts DC to the moderately high voltage supply that all CDIs must have.
B) Most (but not all) DC powered quad ignition systems do not use the kill switch input pin. The CDI connector pin usually has no wire tied to it. AC powered quad ignition systems usually do use the kill switch input pin.
#3
08-31-2012, 01:00 PM
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wow, THANK YOU! i was sweating there for a bit, your assumtion is right with the 6 wire. i wont have the time to work on this thing until sunday evening. so ill post back with more info.
Just from reading your helpful info, i do think its an A/C powered one but ill have to test and check first
Just from reading your helpful info, i do think its an A/C powered one but ill have to test and check first
#4
09-01-2012, 12:46 AM
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wow, THANK YOU! i was sweating there for a bit, your assumtion is right with the 6 wire. i wont have the time to work on this thing until sunday evening. so ill post back with more info.
Just from reading your helpful info, i do think its an A/C powered one but ill have to test and check first
Just from reading your helpful info, i do think its an A/C powered one but ill have to test and check first
AC CDI:
To troubleshoot no spark problems on a 6 pin AC powered CDI it makes sense to start in the middle (the CDI), measure as much as we can and branch out from there. For the CDI to do its thing it needs power, a trigger pulse, and it must must be inhibited via the kill switch input pin.
1) Unplug the CDI. Turn the ignition switch on. Set all kill switches the the "run" position. In the wiring harness, measure the resistance of the kill switch pin to the ground pin on the 20K ohm scale. It should read infinite ohms (same as when the meter leads are hanging free and not touching anything). It should not read zero ohms (shorted).
2) Leave the CDI unplugged. Use a meter to measure the resistance of the AC ignition power pin in the wiring harness to the ground wire on the 2K ohm scale. You should read approximately 400 ohms. What do you measure?
3) In a similar fashion measure the resistance of the Ignition Trigger Pulse pin to the ground pin. You should see 150 ohms or so. What do you measure?
4) Switch your meter over to measure AC volts on the 200 volt scale. Leave the CDI unplugged. While cranking the engine, measure the voltage on the AC Ignition Power pin in the wiring harness to the ground pin. You should measure 40 to 80 volts AC. What do you measure?
5) Set your meter down to the lowest scale you have for measuring AC volts. 2 volts would be ideal, but some meters don't go that low. In that case use the lowest scale you have. While cranking the engine, measure the voltage on the Ignition Trigger Pulse pin in the wiring harness to the ground pin. You should measure 0.2 to 0.5 volts AC. What do you measure?
6) Now plug the CDI back in. Measure the AC voltage on the Ignition Coil pin to the ground pin using the 200 volt scale. If you have to, use a sewing pin to poke through the wire insulation and then put the meter probe on the sewing pin. But don't hold your fingers on the connection during the next test - there may be high voltage here when the engine is turning. With the ignition on and all kill switches set to the "run" position, crank the starter motor. You should see voltages bouncing around at random values and the meter captures all or part of a spark event. What do you see?
1) Unplug the CDI. Turn the ignition switch on. Set all kill switches the the "run" position. In the wiring harness, measure the resistance of the kill switch pin to the ground pin on the 20K ohm scale. It should read infinite ohms (same as when the meter leads are hanging free and not touching anything). It should not read zero ohms (shorted).
2) Leave the CDI unplugged. Use a meter to measure the resistance of the AC ignition power pin in the wiring harness to the ground wire on the 2K ohm scale. You should read approximately 400 ohms. What do you measure?
3) In a similar fashion measure the resistance of the Ignition Trigger Pulse pin to the ground pin. You should see 150 ohms or so. What do you measure?
4) Switch your meter over to measure AC volts on the 200 volt scale. Leave the CDI unplugged. While cranking the engine, measure the voltage on the AC Ignition Power pin in the wiring harness to the ground pin. You should measure 40 to 80 volts AC. What do you measure?
5) Set your meter down to the lowest scale you have for measuring AC volts. 2 volts would be ideal, but some meters don't go that low. In that case use the lowest scale you have. While cranking the engine, measure the voltage on the Ignition Trigger Pulse pin in the wiring harness to the ground pin. You should measure 0.2 to 0.5 volts AC. What do you measure?
6) Now plug the CDI back in. Measure the AC voltage on the Ignition Coil pin to the ground pin using the 200 volt scale. If you have to, use a sewing pin to poke through the wire insulation and then put the meter probe on the sewing pin. But don't hold your fingers on the connection during the next test - there may be high voltage here when the engine is turning. With the ignition on and all kill switches set to the "run" position, crank the starter motor. You should see voltages bouncing around at random values and the meter captures all or part of a spark event. What do you see?
To troubleshoot no spark problems on a 6 pin DC powered CDI it makes sense to start in the middle (the CDI), measure as much as we can and branch out from there. For the CDI to do its thing it needs power, a trigger pulse, and it must not be inhibited via the kill switch input pin.
1) Unplug the CDI. Turn the ignition switch on. Set all kill switches the the "run" position. In the wiring harness, look to see if you have a wire on the kill switch pin. If you do, measure the resistance of the kill switch pin to the ground pin on the 20K ohm scale. It should read infinite ohms (same as when the meter leads are hanging free and not touching anything). It should not read zero ohms (shorted).
2) Leave the CDI unplugged. Turn off the ignition switch. Set your meter to the lowest resistance scale you have (like 2 ohms or 20 ohms full scale). Measure the resistance of the "Ignition Coil" pin in the wiring harness to the ground pin. You should read something around 0.7 ohms (but not zero ohms). What do your measure?
3) Leave the CDI unplugged and the ignition switch off. Set your meter to the lowest resistance scale you have (like 2 ohms or 20 ohms full scale). Measure the resistance of the "Ground" pin in the wiring harness to the the negative battery terminal. You should read zero ohms. What do your measure?
4) Leave the CDI unplugged, and turn the ignition switch into the "on" position. Use a meter to measure the DC voltage on the pin labeled "AC ignition power" in the wiring harness to the ground wire on the 20 volt DC scale. You should read battery voltage (12 volts). What do you measure?
5) Leave the CDI unplugged. Use a meter to measure the resistance of the "Ignition Trigger Pulse" pin in the wiring harness to the ground wire on the 2K ohm scale. You should read approximately 150 ohms. What do you measure?
6) Set your meter down to the lowest scale you have for measuring AC volts. 2 volts would be ideal, but some meters don't go that low. In that case use the lowest scale you have. While cranking the engine, measure the voltage on the Ignition Trigger Pulse pin in the wiring harness to the ground pin. You should measure 0.2 to 0.5 volts AC. What do you measure?
7) Now plug the CDI back in. Measure the AC voltage on the Ignition Coil pin to the ground pin using the 200 volt scale. If you have to, use a sewing pin to poke through the wire insulation and then put the meter probe on the sewing pin. But don't hold your fingers on the connection during the next test - there may be high voltage here when the engine is turning. With the ignition on and all kill switches set to the "run" position, crank the starter motor. You should see voltages bouncing around at random values and the meter captures all or part of a spark event. What do you see?
1) Unplug the CDI. Turn the ignition switch on. Set all kill switches the the "run" position. In the wiring harness, look to see if you have a wire on the kill switch pin. If you do, measure the resistance of the kill switch pin to the ground pin on the 20K ohm scale. It should read infinite ohms (same as when the meter leads are hanging free and not touching anything). It should not read zero ohms (shorted).
2) Leave the CDI unplugged. Turn off the ignition switch. Set your meter to the lowest resistance scale you have (like 2 ohms or 20 ohms full scale). Measure the resistance of the "Ignition Coil" pin in the wiring harness to the ground pin. You should read something around 0.7 ohms (but not zero ohms). What do your measure?
3) Leave the CDI unplugged and the ignition switch off. Set your meter to the lowest resistance scale you have (like 2 ohms or 20 ohms full scale). Measure the resistance of the "Ground" pin in the wiring harness to the the negative battery terminal. You should read zero ohms. What do your measure?
4) Leave the CDI unplugged, and turn the ignition switch into the "on" position. Use a meter to measure the DC voltage on the pin labeled "AC ignition power" in the wiring harness to the ground wire on the 20 volt DC scale. You should read battery voltage (12 volts). What do you measure?
5) Leave the CDI unplugged. Use a meter to measure the resistance of the "Ignition Trigger Pulse" pin in the wiring harness to the ground wire on the 2K ohm scale. You should read approximately 150 ohms. What do you measure?
6) Set your meter down to the lowest scale you have for measuring AC volts. 2 volts would be ideal, but some meters don't go that low. In that case use the lowest scale you have. While cranking the engine, measure the voltage on the Ignition Trigger Pulse pin in the wiring harness to the ground pin. You should measure 0.2 to 0.5 volts AC. What do you measure?
7) Now plug the CDI back in. Measure the AC voltage on the Ignition Coil pin to the ground pin using the 200 volt scale. If you have to, use a sewing pin to poke through the wire insulation and then put the meter probe on the sewing pin. But don't hold your fingers on the connection during the next test - there may be high voltage here when the engine is turning. With the ignition on and all kill switches set to the "run" position, crank the starter motor. You should see voltages bouncing around at random values and the meter captures all or part of a spark event. What do you see?
#5
09-03-2012, 09:52 PM
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#6
09-06-2012, 12:03 AM
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Meters (when used properly) give results every bit as good as any test light every single time, and it gives *so* much more information on top of that. Why self impose a limit on important data you need to make accurate conclusions? It's not like test lights are cheap and meters are expensive 
. In fact the opposite is true. Test lights cost *more* than many good meters and give much less info. I don't get it...
.
#7
09-10-2012, 10:37 AM
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Sorry for the delay. life. anyways, first, test lights are vaulable tools. mine esp. it has the ability to test ignition systems. its far from any average cheap one ive ever seen. second it was what i had at the time. but i did get around to using the multimeter, just was on a different day. turns out i have a A/C cdi. i had a buddy who knows more about quad come and help me out. turns out its jsut poor spark. the readings we got... (which was a week ago so im having trouble remembering) weren't that great. Where can i get a new one from. it seems like all the ones on ebay arent the same one i have
P/N : SM050418 CM250
P/N : SM050418 CM250
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#9
11-01-2012, 08:26 AM
Hi there,
I had just written a whole essay of a reply, but then my browser thought it would be a good idea to refresh and I lost everything I wrote!
So, in a nutshell, I had a similar problem so replaced the two coils. Bought on fleabay and delivered for less than 20 quid. Fitted them both and the quad started straight away. Job done and for not much money.
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