I took some very direct statements you made and then pointed out how you have changed them around. I could care less if my actions 'attract people'. I'm not in this for the glory. Ideally, my comments will make you realize, if even to the smallest extent, that you were not put on this earth to dictate what other people should buy. When I am not working my utility quad, I ride it hard. It's the best of both worlds and that's exactly how I like it, and why I bought it.

I've said it before, it's not about me. It's about you calling people idiots because the atv they want isn't the same as what you want. I started no battle with swampy, I think he made his point in a much more civilized and courteous manner than you did.

I'm not so sure about that...read on.

When you started posting, you weren't talking about factories. You were bitching about riders that need big atv's to feed their ego, and how "disillusioned" they were. That is not a statement of opinion, that is a personal attack on anyone who doesn't agree with you. I think that is a ridiculous and very closed minded point of view to have. Let me know when you start your own ATV company and use your amazing sales and marketing skills to sell more 400's than the other companies sell 600+'s.

The 400 Auto LE 4x4 is a whopping $50 more in 2007 than it was in 2005.
The base 400 4x4 is a wallet busting $150 more in 2007 than it was 2005.
A base 500 4x4 has changed a whopping $100 since 2005, too bad that is actually CHEAPER in 2007. The 500 auto has gone up $100 since 2005.
(courtesy of PowerSports Network)

Do you wish to continue complaining about paying "R&D"? I'm guessing not, since the prices haven't even gone up to a level equal to inflation, much less to cover any of your ridiculous R&D claims. Before you tell me that manufacturing costs go down the longer a unit is in production, therefore justifying a lower selling price, let's remember that there are indeed small improvements made each year, more than enough to justify the piddly $50-150 increases shown in most of the 400cc line.

America is sweet, we aren't limited to buying the bare minimum that will accomplish the job. You don't NEED air conditioning, or power windows, power locks, cd player, aluminum rims, sunglasses, microwaves, or cell phones....the list goes on forever. Of the eight I listed, how many do you have? Why do you have any? You don't NEED them. What vehicle do you drive? Did you pick the smallest, cheapest, lowest horsepower vehicle that could get you to work(church, town, wherever) and back? I think not.

Prowler anyone....anyone? My old man's RTV900 can out "utility" the Prowler fairly easily. It's heavier and can pull more (hello bigger engine) to point out a couple things. I guess sometimes a bigger motor IS an improvement.

Your opinion doesn't empower you to treat others like crap, like you are continuing to do with statements like that.

Insulting me personally because I have shock covers isn't nasty? Interesting, it sounds like backpedaling to me. As far as you buying shock covers, please don't. I really don't care for the idea of having anything more in common with you that I may already incidentally have.

 

I've been hearing rumors of AC building something with 1000cc engine. I really hope it's the prowler and not a quad. They would have to build an all new frame thats at least 30% stronger than what they have now to handle the added torque.

 

Chumley, Grow up and get a life. Go back to school and learn how to read and comprehend. Then learn some communication skills. I really don't care what you think. And I don't care if you approve of what I say or how I say it, because you are not going to tell me what I can and can't say and you are not going to tell me how to say it.

You have said that you don't agree with me so that is fine, I heard you. I don't agree with you and that is fine too.

You come in here like the hero to save the day and put everyone in their place - well Mr. Bigshot, take a hike.

You came in here only to pick a fight and I am telling you directly right now to STOP. If you don't you may not like the results.

 

Chumley, They have a moderator for the forum and it is not you. Who in heck appointed you as 'Big-brother' for the meak and mild, the defender of good, and the opressor of evil. And who are you to tell people what they can and can't say and what opinion they should have and how they should express it.

People do buy things based on their ego and self-image - that is fact. And also people who are misinformed and disillusioned into thinking a certain way also buy things and they may buy the wrong thing, if they don't have the knowledge base or experience or a reliable resource. And if a market trend is set, then that is the direction it will go, until something changes it.

And when people say that a 900+ in a 700lb machine is the best way to go then that is misinformation and causing others that are less knowlegable to be disillusioned into thinking that 'big-bore' is the answer, and if it is a 'big-bore' then it must be better, and that my friend is not true. And as long as people are misinformed and disillusioned they will continue to think that 'big-bore' is better and will continue to buy 'big-bore' and the market trend will continue in that direction.

And as Scott said, anything over a 650 in a 700lb quad is a waste, and I agree. That is my opinion and if you don't agree - fine. And if you want a 900cc 700lb quad for your own ego to do bigger wheelies and go 80mph then that is cool, but don't say it is the best way to go, or it is the best machine. And if your own ego is stroked into the 'King of the Jungle' syndrome - then have at it. But it doesn't impress me. But it does affect the market trend, and if I can disrupt that trend then I will. Then the factories my start to do other things with the current offerings to improve upon them. And that may stop factories from this "power-race" for sales, and the 'biggest and baddest, King of the Jungle' syndrome...

Why did you do all the improvements to your own personal machine? Weren't you satisfied with the factory offerings. Which is precicely my point, there are things they could do to make the product that they already have even better.

 

My brother has a 500 Sportsman,my 300 can keep up with it most of time on the trails we ride.You can only go so fast(or slow) in ruts,over logs and rocks.I do wish I had more power,but I dont and cant afford to buy another ATV right now.

Now,this is for farm work and so on,How could a 800cc-900cc pull and haul more and better than lets a 500cc-650cc if the weight is very close to the same?

An 800lbs. vehicle can pull so much,I cant see how how a 800cc can tow a much heavier load than 650cc,safely.

 

Exactly right Stewartlittle.

We saw the same thing happen with cars and 1/2 ton pickups getting up into the 454 cid. Now they are back to a more realistic usable range of 350 cid and less. Factories, revamped and started to improve upon the current models instead of pushing "power and engine size".

But now we are seeing the same thing happen in the ATV Utility sector where 'big-bore' is being pushed and glamortized to appeal to individual ego's as the 'biggest, baddest, King of the Jungle'.

I personally would like to see the factories improve upon existing product instead of pushing the 'big-bore'.

 

I ALWAYS want more power in anything that I have, but I want it to be usable, I had a Husky 430 dirtbike the dang thing was unridable because of the power and torque, coupled with a bad throttle cable and clutch it was down right dangerous. (needless to say I no longer own it.) I have added a few power adders to my Wolverine and to my Toyota and my Dodge. I will add more when the time comes and when I have the money but for now it will work.

I want the power to do what I want when I want to do it. BUT I dont want it to be unusable (750cc to me here is unusable especially when you add IRS to the mix).

Now I know there are a lot of people close to me that have 660 grizzleys, 700 raptors, Rincons and so on and so forth, where I ride and how I ride one of them would get someone hurt if not careful. I would never have a raptor for trail riding around here because everything is rocky and very rough so I see no need for it unless I went to the dunes or the tracks to race. I would own a grizzley but I dont need that much power and I want my SRA because that is what I feel comfortable on. I would like to see more quads sticking with SRA instead of the current trend of everything going to IRS just because it rides smoother.

I am glad that Yamaha felt the need to revamp the wolverine into the 450 model because it is almost exactly what I would want. I think other manufactures will upgrade their current models unless there is no sales potential for it which is when they will eliminate the model for something newer with more options and different design.

But I do agree that every manufacturer should look at their models and upgrade them.


This is for the manufacturers who actually read this (TAKE A HINT FROM THE SPORT BIKE SEGMENT, THEY GET REVAMPED EVERY COUPLE OF YEARS WITH MORE POWER(same size engine) DIFFERENT STYLING, AND DIFFERENT OPTIONS)

 

I think everyone likes power but there is a limit and I think the factories have taken this beyond a reasonable limit for a UTILITY. These are not race machines they are UTILITY. A 700 lb machine can only effectively and efficently use so much power, anything beyond that is a waste. The factories are glamortizing this 'big-bore' thing and influencing people into thinking that bigger is better, but I know that there are several 400, 500 and 650 owners that would be up to the challenge to prove that 'big-bore' is not better, only faster in a race. And a UTILITY is not built for racing.
And don't you think that 60+ mph is fast enough for a UTILITY quad? Why do the factories feel that 70+ with a UTILITY is reasonable or in fact even safe. It is all about "SALES and MONEY".

 

Look at it this way.

They have made the engines bigger but left the radiators the same size. Now you have overheating issues.

They have increased HP and torque but are still using the same size belt drive, tranny, and axles as a 400. If your going to install a bigger motor, build the rest of the machine to match or your just going to smoke belts, break axles, and bend frames. Most people add gusset kits to their big bores as the first upgrade. THAT should be done at the factory!

 

I personally don't have any problem with AC coming out with a larger motor, even though I probably would never buy one (I said probably[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]. All the manufacturers, not only AC, are simply responding to what they believe that the consumer wants, and right now, larger displacement motors ARE what the consumer wants. It's funny, Buckeroo, you are very passionate about your argument (and I do think that you make some very valid points), but I have also seen a number of posts from people just as passionate that AC should build a bigger motor. The point is, people feel differently about it, but from AC's perspective, isn't it better to build their 4-wheelers with the widest range of engine displacements that the market will support? It just seems that if they are in business to succeed, that they would have to do that. The other factor to keep in mind is that coming out with a larger motor will generate excitement about AC, and they will actually end up selling more of their smaller displacement quads because of it.
So for me, although I can see a number of negatives regarding these larger displacement motors, I don't blame the companies. They are just responding to what the consumer wants.