THUMB THROTTLE VS TWIST
#11
12-29-2000, 01:22 PM
Why thumb throttles suck - Volume 1
1. Grip - the human hand was designed to have the most grip when the thumb is wrapped around an object. Pick up a baseball bat and swing it without using your thumbs and you will see how much you really need your thumbs. The thumb throttle requires that you grip the bars with only your fingers. Most of your gripping force is lost with your thumb on the lever.
2. Stability - when landing harshly, it is very easy to have your thumb fall off the thumb throttle lever. Since it is better to have the throttle on when landing from large jumps, losing control of throttle position a sure way to make the landing worse or cause a crash. With the twist throttle, you can change throttle position when landing without losing grip. If you don't know why you should land with the throttle on, it is so that it extends the rear suspension and lessens the impact by effectively stiffening the rear suspension. This only applies to chain drive.
3. Control - some will argue here that the thumb throttle allows for more control. This may be the case for recreational riding only, but when the terrain gets rough and you are forced to stand up on the quad it is different. When standing, your wrist is at a different angle to the bars as compared to sitting. With the twist throttle, this angle change does not cause any changes, but with the thumb throttle, your thumb is farther away from the lever and at an awkward angle which lessens the ability to control throttle position.
4. Look at what the pros use - why do all the best pro racers use twist throttles? If thumb throttles were so good and gave them advantages in control, grip, precision and whatever else you thumbers can come up with, then why in the world would people that are being paid to win, use something that is less effective or gave them a handicap??? The simple answer is that the twist throttle is the device that offers the advantages, not the thumb.
As for the ATC90 and it's thumb throttle, if you ever rode one, you'd know that they are very slow and have no suspension, which pretty much dictates the atv to recreation use only. Those machines were not designed to jump tabletops and fly through whoops. The thumb throttle is better meant for lazy riders that want to take their time and putt around, and for that purpose it does just fine. Most thumbers have never raced a quad or a bike, and because of this, they have no idea how bad thumb throttles really are.
1. Grip - the human hand was designed to have the most grip when the thumb is wrapped around an object. Pick up a baseball bat and swing it without using your thumbs and you will see how much you really need your thumbs. The thumb throttle requires that you grip the bars with only your fingers. Most of your gripping force is lost with your thumb on the lever.
2. Stability - when landing harshly, it is very easy to have your thumb fall off the thumb throttle lever. Since it is better to have the throttle on when landing from large jumps, losing control of throttle position a sure way to make the landing worse or cause a crash. With the twist throttle, you can change throttle position when landing without losing grip. If you don't know why you should land with the throttle on, it is so that it extends the rear suspension and lessens the impact by effectively stiffening the rear suspension. This only applies to chain drive.
3. Control - some will argue here that the thumb throttle allows for more control. This may be the case for recreational riding only, but when the terrain gets rough and you are forced to stand up on the quad it is different. When standing, your wrist is at a different angle to the bars as compared to sitting. With the twist throttle, this angle change does not cause any changes, but with the thumb throttle, your thumb is farther away from the lever and at an awkward angle which lessens the ability to control throttle position.
4. Look at what the pros use - why do all the best pro racers use twist throttles? If thumb throttles were so good and gave them advantages in control, grip, precision and whatever else you thumbers can come up with, then why in the world would people that are being paid to win, use something that is less effective or gave them a handicap??? The simple answer is that the twist throttle is the device that offers the advantages, not the thumb.
As for the ATC90 and it's thumb throttle, if you ever rode one, you'd know that they are very slow and have no suspension, which pretty much dictates the atv to recreation use only. Those machines were not designed to jump tabletops and fly through whoops. The thumb throttle is better meant for lazy riders that want to take their time and putt around, and for that purpose it does just fine. Most thumbers have never raced a quad or a bike, and because of this, they have no idea how bad thumb throttles really are.
#12
12-29-2000, 01:27 PM
That may indeed be one reason, but the main reason is that of ergonomics. The ATV demands different "english" than a motorcycle. ATV manufacturers have recognised this and that is why you get a thumb throttle...
PWCs (jetskis) & Sleds (Snowmobiles) riding "english" is very similar to an ATV and in both of these industries it is also recognised that twist throttles are not the best option. There is a reason for this.
It's more of a matter of ergonomics than personal preference. If you want the twist to work, it can - but just because you can condition yourself to become somewhat used to it, doesn't mean it's an equally good method. 99% of people (even after familiar with it) are significantly slower on a twist throttle controlled ATV unless you are doing something like strictly drag racing where you are WOT all the time anyway.
Many other examples would be - a steering wheel on an ATV/pwc/snowmobile - it would work, but not well. Foot throttle on an ATV/boat/pwc/snowmobile, again it would work and you could get used to it, but definitely not the best method. How about a foot operated clutch pedal on a quad, or an automatic transmission in your quad (just kidding
)...
The moral of the story is that just because one method of throttle acutation, clutch acutation, steering, etc works well on one type of vehicle, doesn't necessarily mean it will work equally as well on another.
PWCs (jetskis) & Sleds (Snowmobiles) riding "english" is very similar to an ATV and in both of these industries it is also recognised that twist throttles are not the best option. There is a reason for this.
It's more of a matter of ergonomics than personal preference. If you want the twist to work, it can - but just because you can condition yourself to become somewhat used to it, doesn't mean it's an equally good method. 99% of people (even after familiar with it) are significantly slower on a twist throttle controlled ATV unless you are doing something like strictly drag racing where you are WOT all the time anyway.
Many other examples would be - a steering wheel on an ATV/pwc/snowmobile - it would work, but not well. Foot throttle on an ATV/boat/pwc/snowmobile, again it would work and you could get used to it, but definitely not the best method. How about a foot operated clutch pedal on a quad, or an automatic transmission in your quad (just kidding
)...The moral of the story is that just because one method of throttle acutation, clutch acutation, steering, etc works well on one type of vehicle, doesn't necessarily mean it will work equally as well on another.
#13
12-29-2000, 01:38 PM
#14
12-29-2000, 01:43 PM
Grip:
If your throttle is adjusted properly you do have the wrap around of the thumb on the handle bar, the important part of this relationship anyway.
Stability:
Hmmm... Seems there is MUCH more likelyhood of a hard landing causing unwanted throttle operation on a twist where the whole right side of the bars is capable of moving with wrist movement.
Control:
In an ATV environment, twist throttles offer very little part throttle control, you hit a small bump, your wrist moves, you acutate the throttle which in turn worsens the situation. Again proper adjustment of the bars and throttle is critical to any rider.
Pro riders:
Which pro riders are you talking about? Thumb throttles are the rule in MX and XC racing. Attend a racing event and you will see.
On a Banshee it is common knowledge that Yamaha didn't do their homework and due to the 2 carbs it has a very hard throttle pull, which results in thumb fatigue. Most people's cure for this is a twist throttle. This is a design flaw for which there is probably a much better cure, but the easy patch for most is the twist even with it's disadvantages.
I am a dirtbike rider as well, I started on bikes when I was 6 years old. I still own an RM 250. On this bike the twist is fine. There are some very significant differences in the way a bike is ridden and an ATV (rider's relationship to the bars), which dictates the different methods of throttle acutation.
Another thing to remember is that twist throttles are a primary cause of "arm pump" as well.
And yes, I do race, I have ridden ATV's both ways, I do hit big table tops, doubles, triples, whoops, etc.... See my website below.
If your throttle is adjusted properly you do have the wrap around of the thumb on the handle bar, the important part of this relationship anyway.
Stability:
Hmmm... Seems there is MUCH more likelyhood of a hard landing causing unwanted throttle operation on a twist where the whole right side of the bars is capable of moving with wrist movement.
Control:
In an ATV environment, twist throttles offer very little part throttle control, you hit a small bump, your wrist moves, you acutate the throttle which in turn worsens the situation. Again proper adjustment of the bars and throttle is critical to any rider.
Pro riders:
Which pro riders are you talking about? Thumb throttles are the rule in MX and XC racing. Attend a racing event and you will see.
On a Banshee it is common knowledge that Yamaha didn't do their homework and due to the 2 carbs it has a very hard throttle pull, which results in thumb fatigue. Most people's cure for this is a twist throttle. This is a design flaw for which there is probably a much better cure, but the easy patch for most is the twist even with it's disadvantages.
I am a dirtbike rider as well, I started on bikes when I was 6 years old. I still own an RM 250. On this bike the twist is fine. There are some very significant differences in the way a bike is ridden and an ATV (rider's relationship to the bars), which dictates the different methods of throttle acutation.
Another thing to remember is that twist throttles are a primary cause of "arm pump" as well.
And yes, I do race, I have ridden ATV's both ways, I do hit big table tops, doubles, triples, whoops, etc.... See my website below.
#15
01-01-2001, 03:37 PM
My father-in-law had his right thumb crippled by a farm tractor power take off years ago, so is unable to use a thumb throttle. His machines use a twist and I can say it is a big difference. When a inexperienced operator hits the gas seems like it is natural to give her a little more as they are forced to the rear. Have seen some pretty funny stuff when this happens.
#16
01-02-2001, 12:36 PM
You will know oncw you have tried it...
I personally hate it because when in harsh whoops I tend to squeeze my grips hard, thus pulling back a bit and giving it full throttle by mistake. Dangerous for some.
On the other hand my friend loves his twist. It seems much more sporty and "dirtbike" like. He has no problems at all. He did have many years mx bike experience though. I am just a lazy auto-polaris guy...
To each his own.
I personally hate it because when in harsh whoops I tend to squeeze my grips hard, thus pulling back a bit and giving it full throttle by mistake. Dangerous for some.
On the other hand my friend loves his twist. It seems much more sporty and "dirtbike" like. He has no problems at all. He did have many years mx bike experience though. I am just a lazy auto-polaris guy...
To each his own.
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