After lighting a firestorm on several other threads, I think it is time to starta thread on changes to be made to the existing Guidelines. Hopefully we will be able to present the collective works in some form to the "powers" that can get them reviewed and changed. I realize in this forum, this is probably going to blow up into a raging rant, so I'd like to preface this with a request that everyone that feels the need to put fingers to keys and weigh in on this, please take a few minutes and think about the issue before spouting... No need to pile on either... if a suggestion is made, don't everyone come in with an "I agree" post. If somethig comes in and you think you can add or take away from it.. in other words change it a little then that is OK.. but no repeats please.
I hope that this is a serious discussion, and not turned into a turf war.

With that, let's begin...
Please try and limit comment on the following categories.

1) Classification of ATV types. ( pertaining to the ATV's, not riders)

2) Lighting restrictions on mini's

3). Age restirction in general versus motor size (pertaining to rider)

4) Training programs for riders

5) Pre sales education/notification requirements

6) Parental responsibilities for minors

 

The first thing I would like changed is the width of kids ATV's. Theyre way to narrow to be stable accross hills.

Lights make sense on every quad regardless of size.

Base Restrictions on 2 criteria instead of one. 1) age 2) training lvl. example.) If you want your 12 year old to ride a blaster he has to pass a safety class on the Blaster. Theyre gonna do it so why not at least get them educated a bit.

Make parents responsible for property damage and gross negligance. (I think they already are if you read the lawbooks but who knows)

 

Thanks Glimp.. good comments.

My take on the age versus CC limit is two fold. I'd like to suggest that keep the age/size deal, but add an alternative means of measurement. Something like height/weight used as the yardstick as an alternative method to handle the kids that are larger. Generally speaking, I believe the kids these days are getting taller, quicker. Must be something in the water maybe.

I'd also somehow provide wording that allows a kid to demonstrate abilities/skills and move up in size if they can handle it. That would require some sort of certification process.. but it would provide a consistant way to do it while eliminating errors due to interpretation.

Lastly, I have in the past suggested that when purchasing an ATV, a parent and the child would either watch a video or read a pamplet that describes the limitations, dangers, and liabilities assumed with the purchase... and make them initial or sign a document stating they have read and understood the limitations. that shifts a lot of the burdon on to the parents...and allows them to make the choice.

Again thanks for the constructive comments...

 

1) ATV Types - I need to think about this part more.

2) I can see the no night riding for under 12 year olds. We do the same for novice motorcycle drivers, novice (student and recreational) pilots, and drivers permit youth. It really does take a certain "command" of the vehicle before adding limited sight and distance issues into the challange.

3) In addition to, or as alternatives for 12+ year olds certified to ride greater than 90cc quads, Minnesota has defined proper "fit" to be -

Leg Length - A minimum of 3 inches of clearance between the seat and the top inseam of the pants when standing on the foot rests is required to enable the operator to maintain balance on the foot rests when turning and riding over hills and rough terrain.

Arm Length - While seated on the machine and gripping the handle bars, there should be a distinct bend in the arm at the elbow. Without a bend, there will not be sufficient reach to properly grip the handle bars when turning. Being able to move the handle bars to maximum limits while remaining seated is required.

Hand Size - While gripping the handle bar with fingers extended to the brake lever, the first joint of the index finger should extend beyond the brake lever. If it does not, the hand is too small to safely operate the brake.

Strength - Operator must be able to set the parking brake and move the handlebars to each maximum limit.

What this means is - a small youth - even with a safety certificate may not be legal to operate a large quad that the youth does not fit - using the above critiera as the definition.

4) According to the CPSC there are several factors that converge to place young children at risk as operators of ATVs including:
Children believe that any products purchased by their parents are safe.
Danger and risk are underestimated because of the childs own lack of experience with accidents.
Children between the ages of 12 and 15 often overestimate their skills, particularly with increased experience.
Children get into trouble trying to imitate more complex maneuvers of older friends.

I still struggle with what is the mimum age for training. I quess for me it comes down to several variables such as - how young of a person on how big of quad, going how fast down how narrow of a trail - straight at me or one of my family.

Whereas Minnesota prohibits under age 12 from riding on public property - the minumum training age is set at 12.

 

edited by ATV connection moderator

 

Night riding completely aside, headlights are very useful for making a bike be seen in dust, on trails etc.. Why do you think all highway vehicles for the past 10 years have daytime running lights, in case there's a solar eclipse once every 20 years?[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

Weedman, I understand your opinion, however the reality of the situation is this, if we as a group do not take action, or become involved in the changes that are taking place, it will be done for us... that is not a question of if any longer.. it is only a question of when. You can choose to participate and offer constructive suggestions, and join your voice to many who are trying to reverse the growing trend in injuries and deaths and protect the "rights" to ride of our children, or remain part of the silent majority who will be moaning about what they lost...

I and a lot of others hope to make a difference.. there are no guarantees, but at least we are trying. We all welcome your opinions and hope that after taking time to think about it, you may have something more constructive to contribute.

 

Whodat, thanks for the information. It appears that MN is taking an agressive stance in laying out it's ground rules... and I don't think that is all bad. Everything here makes pretty good sense to me... As I understand from previous conversations, MN also has a program by which a young rider can also move up in class of machine by means of a skills demonstration test. That makes perfect sense to me too. It allows the child that is progressing faster than their peers to move up based upon demonstrated ability.

As for the light restrictions... I agree with you both. I don't think on the majority of occasions, that I would necessarily let my 9 year old ride after dark.... however I agree with confused that in dusty conditions, and in woods riding during daylight hours, the little extra flash does make it easier for other riders to see an oncoming machine when they have their lights on. That little extra may make teh difference between hitting each other around a corner etc. thus reducing the accident/injury statistics.

 

I disagree with night riding aswell for kids, but reiterate the benefits of headlights. And by not having them, you don't prevent someone from installing them later and still riding at night.

 

I also believe that kids quads should come with lights for the day time and not night riding. I have a hard enough time with the stock lighting on my quads and had to add a auxillary to light the trail further out to help me see what I am coming up on rather then what I am just about to hit in the trail and kids do not have the eyesight usually to see clearly in the dark.

As for age I have no problem with having the child take a course but I see a need for a learner permit to be able to get the child some seat time before he has to show how proffiecent he/she is, because not everyone has a few extra acres to train them on.

Number 5 is already addressed up here in Alaska in the form of a check off list, stating that you have read the do's and don'ts and they give a vhs video and a cd rom with a atv game on it, that involves everything from precheck to riding to required gear that should be worn and it goes into trail riding and critizes the player when he is not doing what they are supposed to be doing. My little boy played the one I got with mine and he played it and he new quite a bit before we even bought his quad to ride.

I have instilled into him while on the trail to pull over to the right hand side when other trail users are coming at or from behind so as not to have to worry about him darting in front of the other user's. Also to always pull it over and shut it off while around horses as they are very easy to spook and the riders enjoy the courtesy displayed to their use of the trails.

Lastly parental responsibilties, I was and still am under the impression that I am responsible for his actions allready.

I like the fact Gary is trying to get a useful dialog going on this subject rather then the bickering.

Are you taking this further by any chance?

AlaskaBoy.
Matthew.