posted by: mywifesquad:
"...Why do you think that ATVer's in michigan as a whole dont care or wont get involved?..."

BB RESPONSE---
Because southeast michigan atv riders have been told that if they don't keep their mouths regarding the disposition of this recent unprecedented and massive trail mileage that you witness everybody here afraid to talk about..."Santa Cycle" wil not bring these suburban atvers their nice new city slicker riding area (we won't even discuss what kind of fat hog these club leaders hope to slay at the same time.---------------- End of response

Man,you talk about total Bull$hit for an answer,BB really takes the cake with that answer.It has NOTHING to do with ATVers being told to keep their mouths shut or they wont get their new southern riding area.WHERE in the WORLD did you come up with that one? Tell me ONE person who told the ATVers to keep their mouths shut over this new trail mileage and IF it can be substanciated, I'll personally stick my size 12 up their a$$es.

Trouble with using that one as a response BB is that its not even REMOTELY true.

 

If you keep on making excuses as to why these super secret Michigan orv leaders perpetually keep their mouths shut regarding this upcoming historic mileage....maybe you could use your 'shoe' to break the spell these pied pipers have on this orv community in regards to speaking out..regarding same?

 

BB QUOTE*
If you keep on making excuses as to why these super secret Michigan orv leaders perpetually keep their mouths shut regarding this upcoming historic mileage....maybe you could use your 'shoe' to break the spell these pied pipers have on this orv community in regards to speaking out..regarding same
END OF QUOTE*

You just keep digging yourself deeper into your own lies here. I cannot think of ONE person who is keeping their mouth shut with regards to these new miles of trail. And to indicate your untruthfulness even further,the discussions are SO open,it was discussed in the last ORV Board meeting,which was OPEN to the PUBLIC.

Some REAL secret there---hey!

 

Uhhh, "Muddy"...here's the transcript of those minutes: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Fe...s_150946_7.pdf (page 2)

Where do they include "the public" discussing a damn thing about what or where this massive mileage will be....and my second question would be...since when does the Michigan orv public simply sit back regarding the disposition of 750 miles of trail...while the DNR claims: "Well, we can't really formulate any historic update plan defining the actual direction this department will take regarding future orv trails..but now that you've thrown this massive orv trail mileage in our laps AT THE EXACT SAME JUNCTURE IN TIME...why don't we 'get bact to you' on BOTH of these historic subjects...while the rest of you at this meeting don't even bother to comment regarding either subject during the one time every 3 months we give you all to speak your peace!"

Yeah, I'm really digging myself in further here, Muddy.
Tell me...what was the problem that night during this hugely historic opportunity for the Michigan atv community to finally speak out about where and what these trails should be?

Did "Santa Cycle" again tell all his little red-headed step-child atvers that they damn well better keep their mouths shut regarding what cyclists wanted in regards to this massive mileage..or did every atver there believe the subject to just "not be that important"...and that "The 'DNR' will tell us what <U>we</U> need...when they're by gosh damn well and ready?".

 

Sorry BB,
but I dont control WHAT is or is not printed in the minutes,the DNR do. ALL those present at the meeting know damn well that these 750 miles were brought up and that the DNR does not yet have the location or type of trails that will be in place.


BB QUOTE*and my second question would be...since when does the Michigan orv public simply sit back regarding the disposition of 750 miles of trail...while the DNR claims: "Well, we can't really formulate any historic update plan defining the actual direction this department will take regarding future orv trails..but now that you've thrown this massive orv trail mileage in our laps AT THE EXACT SAME JUNCTURE IN TIME...why don't we 'get bact to you' on BOTH of these historic subjects...while the rest of you at this meeting don't even bother to comment regarding either subject during the one time every 3 months we give you all to speak your peace!"End of Quote*

This is a very simple answer. There's not enough quality ATV leaders in clubs yet that bring these issues to their membership. Heck,a few of our OWN ATVOC leaders feel its OK for the cyclists of this State to have 26 trails marked as 24 inch trail [on the ground] while at the same time,be able to access ALL 3000 miles of ORV trail on the ATVers dollars.In the mean time,club members that operate ATVs,can only access 60% of this same 3000 miles of trail while paying the exact same 16.25 ORV sticker fee that the cyclists do. This is poor quality leadership in my opinion and leads ATV membership the wrong direction.

The second part of my answer has already been answered several times over. ATVers do NOT get INVOLVED enough to make an impact. Until we FILL these legislators offices with complaints and until we FILL these ORV Board meetings with ATV club members that are sick/tired of the DNRs less than SLOW political process of taking care of issues in a TIMELY manner, we will have to accept what we have--like it or not!

Right now, the ATVers do not have 'STRENGTH in NUMBERS'

 

I was just wondering what it would be like in this thread if I was the quad rider and you 2 were dirt bike riders?

 

SSDD

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
"..Sorry BB, but I dont control WHAT is or is not printed in the minutes,the DNR do..".

I stood up years ago when the DNR took away our official stenographer for these meetings.
When I did so...everybody...TO A MAN in the Michigan orv community painted me out as some kind of "troublemaker" for so much as DARING to <u>question</u> just why our orv advisory board would allow such a ridiculous thing to happen.

Now you come along....crying me a river...regarding how <u>you</u> 'don't control' what is printed in those minutes...like the issue was <u>never</u> brought forward...by anyone in this damn community!

FOR PETE'S SAKE, MUDDY...WE DON'T HAVE ANY RECORD OF WHAT WAS <u>SAID</u> AT THOSE MEETINGS IN THE FIRST PLACE...EFFECTIVELY ALLOWING THESE SAME BOZOS WHO MEET <u>IN</u> <u>SECRET</u> BETWEEN SAME...TO ACT ANY WAY THEY DAMN PLEASE WHETHER THEY ARE "IN PUBLIC"...OR NOT!

Why in the hell do you think that they can get away with me publicly informing both the DNR and the chairman that they are full of CRAP when they blatantly deny my legal and documented right to speak at said meeting....yet "somehow" THAT part of my public statement... never makes the damn minutes?
What do you think these guys do when shown the undisputable evidence of this crap?
Apoligize PUBLICLY(?)....or congratulate each other on forcing yet another citizen to give up going to these meetings?

"...ALL those present at the meeting know damn well that these 750 miles were brought up and that the DNR does not yet have the location or type of trails that will be in place..."

I DON'T GIVE A DAMN WHAT THE DNR HAS TO SAY ABOUT THIS MASSIVE MILEAGE **UNTIL** THE GUTLESS LEADERS OF THIS ATV COMMUNITY CRAWL <u>OUT</u> FROM THEIR HOLES AND FINALLY "APPEAR" HERE <u>OUT</u> <u>IN</u> <u>THE</u> <u>LIGHT</u> <u>OF</u> <u>DAY</u> INSTEAD OF ACTING LIKE A BUNCH OF DAMN SECRETIVE "NON-PROFIT" OPPORTUNISTS!

You can defend these secretive bastards, the DNR and this non-responsive new advisory board all you wish, Muddy...yet would you like to hear my suggestion?
Do the Michigan cycle leaders who have already bailed <u>out</u> of this thread (and the atv leaders who <u>avoided</u> it) a favor by not forcing me to reveal anything further than what has already been embarrasingly unveiled here.
Believe me, my friend...they'd ALL appreciate the 'spotlight' being shown on their long history of activities here..be kindly shut <u>off</u> if you could help it. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

If you were the quad rider..
...one would have to wonder why "God" gave me (the cycle rider) this obvious arrogant attitude concerning OUR land..or even my need for exclusive access to that landwhile simultaneously demanding that "I" still ride everybody else's trails...to boot.

Uhhhh, think about it...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

You never publically stood in front of anybody at any Board meeting and said ANYTHING about the lack of a Stenographer,let alone have folks that rediculed you for bringing it up.I'll agree that the Stenographer is no longer there,and one needs to be reinstated,but quit patting yourself on the back for something you did'nt do. The ONLY time the word STENOGRAPHER was EVER brought up,was in these forums.


BB Quote*
DON'T GIVE A DAMN WHAT THE DNR HAS TO SAY ABOUT THIS MASSIVE MILEAGE **UNTIL** THE GUTLESS LEADERS OF THIS ATV COMMUNITY CRAWL OUT FROM THEIR HOLES AND FINALLY "APPEAR" HERE OUT IN THE LIGHT OF DAY INSTEAD OF ACTING LIKE A BUNCH OF DAMN SECRETIVE "NON-PROFIT" OPPORTUNISTS.You can defend these secretive bastards, the DNR and this non-responsive new advisory board all you wish, Muddy...yet would you like to hear my suggestion?
Do the Michigan cycle leaders who have already bailed out of this thread (and the atv leaders who avoided it) a favor by not forcing me to reveal anything further than what has already been embarrasingly unveiled here.
Believe me, my friend...they'd ALL appreciate the 'spotlight' being shown on their long history of activities here..be kindly shut off if you could help it---------End of Quote*

Oh please-------quit telling the same damn story time after time with regards to poor ATV leadership and get off your a$$ and GO DO SOMETHING about it!EVERYBODY knows how you feel about the lack of leadership. START YOUR OWN CLUB AND MAKE YOUR OWN RULES instead of boring the heck out of 27 pages of the same shi%-------

Oh,but PLEASE,tell us more embarrassing things about these cyclists. I thought I already knew most of it..