Just what are you basing this opinion on and who are you accusing of fraud?

I think you need to review the facts before getting on the pulpit.

 

DB does not understand HOW or WHY HB 5343 was even introduced for,alls he really knows is that it got shut down real fast.

HB 5343 was introduced mainly this last time by Polaris Industries. They were mis-informed that Michigan trails did not have ANY area's for their RUV products to operate, thats the real reason why they asked for a widening Bill in the first place. After Polaris found out that Michigan does indeed have places for their RUVs to operate, they backed out of the Bill completely.

Even though I fully support a wider trail system, NOW is NOT the time to push for something like that here in Michigan. We have another 725 miles of new trails that are suppose to be mapped out by 2008. Get THESE 725 miles on the ground first than we can seek out a few more wider ORV trails for the minority of folks that ride huge/wide ORVs like BB Rhino.If it were left up to me,I'd widen every darn one of them to 60 inches,but I also have to realize that im not the only operator in Michigan.

 

Originally posted by: 2TrakR
"...Just what are you basing this opinion on and who are you accusing of fraud?I think you need to review the facts before getting on the pulpit...."

DB need read no further than my Atv Connection quoted signature to describe the secretive non-public fraud being perpetuated here ("...bbbbut my computer crashes when I push the reply key...and by god every individual/group in the 22,000 member MMRC must remain anonymous with no publicly held/published opinion as to the multi-use nature concerning these next <u>750</u> miles of trail!).

For pete's sake, Jeremy; they've got your number <u>all</u> <u>over</u> <u>this</u> <u>darn</u> <u>country</u>....and this thread in AtvConnection wasn't even a tiny part of it! (do you think either DB or I were the first individuals to run into CCC/District 14 and their manner of doing business both in and outside this "united" Michigan orv community....get <u>real</u>!)

Maybe DB could better review "the facts"....if your American Motorcycle Association District Vice-President and Legislative Director (who started this thread on AtvConnection like "god" spouting his version of same)...didn't 'roll the stone away and disappear' right in the middle of our trying to ascertain same???

I, for one, am darn glad that DB is at least questioning who's ON this pulpit in the first place....especially when said individual exited stage left months ago and evidently caused "you" to be the talking head for every orv groups who year after year continually choose to remain "anonymous" both in name and opinion (during the most critical junture in this massive orv system's history, of course).

The rest of this forum membership may allow a man who has spent countless hours educating/encouraging others on this forum for the good of the sport to be disparaged for no reason....yet I, for one, won't stand for it.

 

I quit the first organization after running into motorcyclists like yourself who couldn't/wouldn't simply look a man in the eye and give him a straight answer to a simple question (see above)....
....and I quit the second after looking their president in the eye and asking him if my sending in an extra $30 of my money to the club I just quit...wouldn't cause him to sneak behind my back and do exactly what these guys voted on this past Saturday (joining that same "pay-no-attention-to-the-man-behind-the-curtain" motorcycle club and becoming the red-headed-step-children of same).

You see, Jeremy, the answer isn't really all that important after all this time has passed since my first asking it.

When you've got Michigan atvers up here right now who darn well KNOW the answer to my simple question; yet are seemingly "afraid" enough (or told to keep their mouth shut) to <U>not</U> simply come out and reveal it...guys like DB and <u>every</u> <u>other</u> <u>4-wheeled</u> <u>enthusiast</u> <u>on</u> <u>this</u> <u>forum</u> ...get a pretty good idea as to why the word "fraud" is probably sugar-coating what is really going on here in Michigan. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img] (by the way, I'd check either one of your forums to get this answer on my own; yet I simply don't have the money to access these super-secret "members only" sections of your websites...).

C'mon, Michigan atvers....stand up like a man (or woman) and not allow others to take your issues behind closed doors while insisting that you keep your mouths shut regarding same.
Believe me, our kids deserve better.

 

I absolutely do not agree with that aproach. Why would'nt we work on getting the trails we have fixed and widened first, then try to get the new "725 miles" of new trails? That does'nt make much sense to me. I'm all for new trails for ATV'ers in Michigan but I would rather have the ones we already have fixed before that ever happens. How can we bitch about wanting new trails, MUDDY, when we cant even get the trails we have taken care of properly or widened? Seems just a little bit backwards and irresponsible to me.

 

Thank you for being the first person I've heard in 7 years to throw this back in their face, stunna...these motorcyclists have recruited these suburbanite atvers to fight this fight for 3 reasons:

#1) the loss of "me only"single track trails to the concept of a true multi-use trail system

#2) the loss of massive amounts of cash flowing into their clubs through maintenance grants they could no longer apply for in a true for-profit privatized 21st century mechanized maintenance program

and #3).... the promise of a big city slicker riding area right out all of their back doors if they would just ignore the glaring maintenance needs we have on the old system and the massive amounts of cash needed to properly fix same (if increased fees go to fixing what we have).
If these people don't keep their mouths shut in regards to what is wrong with the present system; this huge Detroit area cash cow riding area and the money these people seek to make off of it may not only be delayed in materializing...but funding needed to construct same would be quickly off to properly repair/maintain the 'raped' trails they presently claim should be simply shut down for "study".

Thanks again for showing that atvers can be environmentally responsible and desirable of more trail mileage at the same time. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

From what Ive read here the Multi purpose trails(what I call roads) are about 70% of the trails in Michigan. In your opinion BB what percentage would be fair?

 

STUNNO,
And I disagree with your perception of what should happen first. I do not disagree with you that we need to fix the trails we currently have [that is actually starting to happen this year].

NEW trail miles are HARD to come by. If the DNR is willing to give us 725 miles of NEW trail miles, than we better not blink an eye and take it while the offering is there. If we lay priority to our current trails and bring them to specifications FIRST before we concider where we are going to lay the new 725 miles of new trails, than my guess is that the 725 miles of new trails will be a thing of past concideration to the DNR when we ask them for it.

You and I are on the same page here brother, its just that I think we ought to concider putting these new trails on the ground as fast as we can while fixing what current trails we have.

 

As long as you arent trading new trails for old. I would have to agree with you Muddy. Im not even sure when the last NEW trails were made anywhere in ca. I cant imagine there were any new trails made here in the last 5 years.

 

Does'nt that stretch our budget even more though? If the state is already having a problem, and bitching, about maintaining our current trails because of money being tight, does'nt it seem to you that if we get more trail put on the ground that in the end its gonna end up being the same thing and the community (ATV community that is) is gonna be bitching about those trails not being maintained and blaa blaa blaa? If we don't stop the vicious cycle right now, or as close to now as possible, this might come back to bite us all in the *** later on and we might lose more trail than we gain in this whole episode. Or am I the only one who thinks this way?


I'm also for more trails in Michigan no doubt about it. I wish there was a trail system right by my house (metro detroit area) but I think I'm being realistic when I say that I don't expect that to happen, ever.