Does anyone know how many trails have been closed in Michigan in the last 5-10 years? Versus new ones?

 

Miles lost of designated trail = ~350 miles
Miles added = 50 miles

Those miles removed were by the DNR/USFS against strong User opposition. Those miles added, as you can imagine, were the result of extensive efforts on the User's part.

It took legislation to get our designated trail system and countless hours of volunteers to get that legislation followed by even more time of those volunteers to put the trail system on the ground. It's taken more legislation, again, to get new trail miles on the table and will take more volunteers to put those miles on the ground.
If the User groups don't want to put in the work or effort, the government will not do it for them. I think many of us know this, but for those that don't have the history lesson behind them, it's difficult to understand. The best I can offer is to suggest looking at our other recreational counterparts and see what the DNR/USFS has done for them - do snowmobilers do their own work or let the DNR do it for them (6000 mile trail system). Equestrians? Mountain Bikers?
It's pretty clear to me if we as ORV Users want something we need to step up and work for it.

 

Stunna,
adding more trail on the ground has nothing to do with the State's budget. Our sport of ORVing is self supporting thru our own 16.25 cent ORV sticker fund, we dont receive one penny from the State of Michigan or tax payers to support our trails or to maintain them.

 

I'll tell you who I would point fingers at. Anyone who goes on a public forum bragging about how they got a bill shot down in favor of building trails that would only serve the interests of two wheel crowd. This SAME group/individual claims to represent ATV's too... and includes their numbers to impress the authorities and trick them into believing that his voice is much larger than the said minority two wheel group. That is mis representation... Or for a lask of a better word.. FRAUD!

You want to discuss fraud... take a look at how the funds were dolled out for trail maintenence, and the standards that this maintenence work was supposed to be done... Hmm, I doubt you would be complaining about the trail Maintenence if they were done properly.. yet they are what they are arent they... and some people managed to profit form this ...

Don't EVEN turn those stone over my friend, there are people here I'd rather not involve in that discussion, as I respect them too much to drag them through the mud...

What really stuffs my cork is that with all this bickering, ALL opportunities are being )@(*&$$ed away because of the egos of a few individuals. BBalled had it right... Dick open this pandora's box, and was not man enough to stay and clean up his mess, or face the music when the heat was turned up. You can add coward to that list of names...

You want to kick me off the forum.. so be it..the real truth is out there for all to see now. The bottom line here is old Dick knows he has beed flushed out of the weeds. He openned his mouth, and now all the karma he has been spreading is coming back to haunt him.

 

DB QUOTE*
I'll tell you who I would point fingers at. Anyone who goes on a public forum bragging about how they got a bill shot down in favor of building trails that would only serve the interests of two wheel crowd. This SAME group/individual claims to represent ATV's too... and includes their numbers to impress the authorities and trick them into believing that his voice is much larger than the said minority two wheel group. That is mis representation... Or for a lask of a better word.. FRAUD
END OF QUOTE*-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tell me something? Show me ONE post where Dick indicated that he got a Bill shut down in favor of building trails that would only serve the interest of the 2 wheeled crowd?Some of you guys really need to stop taking the word of some southwestern critter that NOBODY in the entire State of Michigan has ANY respect for in the least bit. Dick OWNS and RIDES a 2-seater Bombardier Max that he cherishes/rides ALOT. I can say this because I've rode with him. Im also getting sick and tired of reading BS about a man that has spent more man hrs in the last year alone preserving the sport of ATV/ORVing in Michigan than ANY 10 MEN in here put TOGETHER!--------------------------------

QUOTE*
Dick open this pandora's box, and was not man enough to stay and clean up his mess, or face the music when the heat was turned up. You can add coward to that list of names...
END OF QUOTE*

Sorry, Dick is no coward either. He has FAR more important issues to face head on then to be sitting by his P/C WAITING for what assine remarks from a few USELESS individules that nobody gives a damn about in the first place. Wanna talk COWARD? When somebody comes into various forums [and BANNED from most of them] for 5-6 years and has the ***** to tell everyone else what HE thinks is wrong with EVERYBODY else and yet does N.O.T.H.I.N.G himself to better things, thats COWARD IMO.

Want to slam Dick for representing 22000 users? Go ahead, I could care less HOW many folks Dick said he represents.This HB5343 would have been SHUT DOWN no matter HOW MANY folks Dick said he represented. The BOTTOM LINE here is that DICK has personally done more for the advancement of ALL MICHIGAN ORV users in the last few years than ANYBODY in this ENTIRE STATE of Michigan has, and you can take that right to the bank!

Slam my friend all you want, but a coward,he is NOT!

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: 2TrakR
The legislation that dumped this new mileage in the DNR's lap was crafted entirely behind closed doors and with NO public consultation or announcement as to the effort itselt. The author of this thread was asked point blank on severaloccassions during this legislative process as to exactly how he was representing this community's needs to others both inside and outside thecommunity....to no avail. Then, as now, these same people hold meeting after puiblic meeting with no oral or published user group consensus opinion on what exactly this community wishes this mileage to look like in terms of "me-only" v.s. multi-use trails.

Please don't insinuate that the user groups of this Michigan orv community don't want to do anything. These people have witnessed their current orv issues (not to mention any official community-wide response to the DNR's historic orv update plan) be hijacked by every single individual in this anonymous super-secret council and now face the carving up of massive historic mileage between those same "leaders" who've dodged every legitimate question asked of them for years.

We all understand the game of acting rudely arrogant and as secretive as possible in order that good people just "give up" trying to get involved in the issues....yet don't think that creating 'power' in this manner gives you the right to question whether this community ever tried to step up to the plate in the first place.

 

QUOTE
The legislation that dumped this new mileage in the DNR's lap was crafted entirely behind closed doors and with NO public consultation or announcement as to the effort itselt. The author of this thread was asked point blank on several occassions during this legislative process as to exactly how he was representing this community's needs to others both inside and outside thecommunity....to no avail.------------------------------------------------END OF QUOTE

More of your famous BS.. Actually, a VARIETY of DIFFERANT ORV user clubs have met on several occassions in Lansing to discuss this new milage of trails and it was also brought up in the last two ORV Board meetings.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE
Then, as now, these same people hold meeting after puiblic meeting with no oral or published user group consensus opinion on what exactly this community wishes this mileage to look like in terms of "me-only" v.s. multi-use trails----------------------------------------END OF QUOTE

What makes you think that ORV clubs are OBLIGATED to discuss ANYTHING regarding our meetings to the community? Its MEMBERSHIP dollars that keep these clubs going and if you dont like the fact that some clubs keep their discussions INSIDE of their club, than JOIN the club or form your OWN.

ORV clubs dont owe a damn thing to the outside community IMO! Get INVOLVED or dont CRY!

 

Originally posted by: Blackballed:
QUOTEThe legislation that dumped this new mileage in the DNR's lap was <u>crafted </u>entirely behind closed doors and with NO public consultation or announcement as to the <u>effort</u> itselt. The author of this thread was asked point blank on several occassions <u>during</u> this legislative process as to exactly how he was representing this community's needs to others both inside and outside the community....to no avail.

Muddy's reply:
"...More of your famous BS.. Actually, a VARIETY of DIFFERANT ORV user clubs have met on several occassions in Lansing to discuss this new milage of trails and it was also brought up in the last two ORV Board meetings."

Blackballed today:
It's pretty frustrating to argue a point when those seeking to bury the facts in a matter choose to ignore (on purpose?) the very concept of past and present. Fact: There was absolutely no advance contact with the general public in relation to the formation of this legislation and every effort of those who got a wiff of it coming down the pipe was met with outright deception and lies.("why we have no idea what you could be talking about..).

(Muddy's view of the public at large):
"...What makes you think that ORV clubs are OBLIGATED to discuss ANYTHING regarding our meetings to the community....ORV clubs dont owe a damn thing to the outside community...."

(Blackballed)
"Wow"....no wonder 2-Trakkr picked <u>your</u> club to join after defending that kind of arrogant attitude for years with his fellow motorcyclists...you guys are two peas in a pod! &lt;B&gt;

&lt;/B&gt;As to your insistence that the general public has been privy to ANY discussions concerning this legislation (before OR after these crooks back-doored it through) here are the official meeting minutes for both of those public affairs http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Fe...s_150946_7.pdf http://www.michigan.gov/documents/No...s_149970_7.pdf. Can you please point to where this public has been educated on how these different orv groups (especially your super secret/anonymous MMRC) feel that this mileage should actually be divided? ("me-only" single tracks v.s. "the rest of us"?).

How stupid do you think we all are, Muddy?...or are you now going to start hollering about the fact that we lost our stenographer years ago and that the DNR has inaccurately penned these minutes with the boards approval during that entire period? (careful, as I've been asking somebody to stand up like a man on the public's basic right to be accurately informed from <u>day</u> <u>one</u>).
Or perhaps you feel this is akin to meetings of your super-secret MMRC?...as long as a bunch of anonymous individuals talk about this community's needs concerning the make-up of this massive mileage 'somewhere' behind closed doors...by gosh it's been discussed!

I'll get back to some of the other attempts at re-writing history here; yet the above vividly illustrates how far these guys will actually go to confuse and misdirect the general public as to the pressing issues at hand. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

 

You can stick your meeting minutes where the sun dont shine because they dont mean a damn thing to me, especially when you factor in that since we lost our stenographer, half of what is said is missed in the minutes anyway.And even IF the information did make it to the meeting minutes, what differance do you think it would make anyways? The ORV Advisory board has NO LEGAL POWER at all,they are nothing more than a recommendation panel to the DNR. Just because you dont see it in the minutes does not mean that it was not mentioned or discussed. And I'll say it again, the MMRC is made up of differant types of ORV USER groups/clubs, we do not cater or publish our information to the general public.We try to LIMIT as many folks as we can that may posses the same charater defects as yourself. If a person wants information about what goes on inside of these meetings, than that individule ought to concider joining an ORV club of his/her choice for one of the best sources of information.

 

I think Blackballed has been spending a little too much time surfing this site

www.paranoiamagazine.com

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