Now that I have just about offended everyone involved in MI politics... I think I am going to take Dick's lead and leave MI politics to Michigan riders.... Sorry to have offended everyone.... I should know better.... And I braved the snow this morning to get to the barber shop and had those hackles removed.... So God bless and ya'all and have a great holiday season. ( I have to learn how to speak "Southern" now that I am moving to GA soon.)

 

On the contrary, I very much appreciate your method of simply intelligently and respectively asking the most obvious of questions.

The system belongs to us. It is a motorized system broke down into two basic parts for obvious reasons (very large and light 4-wheeled vehicles on down). What the cyclists seek is a "God-given" separate category EXCLUSIVELY for themselves...while maintaining their (again) 'right'....TO RIDE THE WHOLE DAMN THING.

We have a lot of Amish and Menonite around here who built roads all around this farm country that reach for miles and miles back in the day. What we didn't do when more modern machinery came along and those roads were needed to support the betterment of our community (think orv community) and the economy as it was...is allow them to stick their noses up at the rest of <U>their community</U> claiming that these pathways of commerce and enjoyment were not only <U>theirs and theirs only</U>...nor (again) did we allow them to build MORE roads as they pleased or where they saw fit.

They coexisted....and they sure as hell didn't do so by going down the arrogant route these cyclists chose....that is refusing to maintain a resource with the best of 21st century equipment...and certainly NOT "giving up" on already (they claim) "4-wheel raped" land they feel would be best served by laying down more land to be desecrated right beside it (and all over the introduction of this modern machinery meaning the effective loss of their revenue and a GOD FORBID edict that they now must TRULY work with the rest of us in building TRUE multi-use systems).

Again, if folks feel there will ALWAYS be enough trails out there for my Rhino to have its own trail, the atvers theirs, the cyclists theirs and whatever 'new' technology comes down the pipe 'their own' too?....let's end this talk of how these bastards have manipulated what we can't ride here in Michigan....and get down to laying these next 750 miles of trails they want to build....as an equal division of all 4 (or more).

Does anybody really think this will <U>work</U>....or have these guys conditioned your minds so effectively ...that you'll always believe any guy on two wheels should ride every trail without question in the morning...then ride/camp out on his "own" trails...in the afternoon?

 

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: mywifesquad
"..And maybe they dont think they are "Gods", but think they have paid their dues and have earned their position...."

Their position as "what"?

Guys who can hijack every issue which comes along and do so without debate/behind closed doors using a DNR hand-picked advisory board who flat out refuse to answer any question put before them? I'm sorry, but I'm old enough to have respect for my "elders"...that is just up to and including the point that they start acting like jackasses who think they can rule the world and call you every name in the book in the process.

I guess the definition of "a man" is one hell of a lot simpler over here in western Michigan....as that (to us) simply includes standing up like like one first...not playing childish games like manipulating your short speaking time at orv advisory board meetings....so that they might not even "speak" in the first place!.

Tell me, MWQ (and again, I respect your insight here)...how would YOU like dealing with people here who seemingly can't get past even their most childish instincts...and do so with an air of arrogance (picture some guy with a toothpick hanging out of his mouth, hands on his hips and his head cocked to one side; introducing himself as "Joe Blow, AMA District 14") that has no other equal in this state...save their counterparts in the DNR?

How would YOU like traveling half-way across the state....only to have the DNR LIE about your documented request to speak which was sent to 5 other people in the room at that time (none with the ***** to stand up and say anything other than 'afterwards')....while the chairman of your advisory board uses that 'golden opportunity' to deny any contact with you on the subject matter you're there to talk about...and cut your "allowed" speaking time down to almost nothing?

Again, I'm just a conservative southwestern Michigan rural resident who is tired of putting up with arrogant ***** who have "earned" (as you mentioned above) some perceived right to treat people in this manner

 

Oh I don't know BBalled... it might be the ferocity of your argument that has forced them to close the doors..... Don't get me wrong, the argument needs to be heard.. and as anything every issue has many facets and points of view... but I think this is more of a personality issue than anything else...

I can't think of anything other than what you are personally doing that can effect change. You are showing up at the public meetings, and talking to the same decision makers that they are... Unfortunately, the crazy label has been applied... and I am not sure your message is being received any longer...

What I'd like to see is if you could somehow get placed on the committee... I'd pay money to see that meeting of the minds....

 

Sure, you'd like to see it....as I have absolutely no problem shoveling back the same crap that's been piled on me for simply speaking the truth.

The problem being, DB...that if a 42 year-old-man-who-knows-better can be denied his simple right to speak <u>without</u> consequence....what chance do these younger people that you and I have encouraged over the years to get "involved"...have when the first cyclist (or even one of their red-headed stepchild "sub-chapter" atv members) approaches them with:

"You don't understand little young man....WE ARE 'god' here in Michigan...and we think you damn well better not only quit asking these petty little questions....but start showing us some <u>respect</u>"!

Are today's young people experienced enough to be equipped to get around this when simply discussing their favorite recreational activity and/or the disposition of such a valuable resource....or is it up to "somebody" to knock these bastards down a peg or two while opening up all of our god-given RIGHTS...to (again) simply be <u>heard</u>?

 

Thank you! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

All I am saying is that for over 20 years or so the dirt bike guys had all of it to themselves and maintained it too. i have been a part of a enduro club that did all the maintainence of approx 130 miles of trail. Thats real trail,(1'wide or less) not quad roads. That was in return for being allowed to hold one event at that location. They had to do all the repairs for the whole system regardless if they (the dirt bikes) caused the problem I was personally involved in it and it is maddening when others came to the area and acted like it was their right to use it.

And the dirt bikes do fit on ALL the trails so why shouldnt they have access to ALL of it. I think the time they have put into their sport is being over looked by the new comers.

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: blackballed
The guys who got it all started. Some of them have been riding since before quads were even thought of.

 

I dont like arrogance any more than the next guy but is what your doing helping? The dirt bike guys must feel threatened in some way to react the way they are. I know that a lot of places that I ride has seen trails made into quad friendly roads. Which by the way are absolutely boring for a dirt bike rider with any talent. And for good guys we'd rather stay home. So I like ive said I understand both sides in this. I love and live for single track, but understand a quad rider wanting a 4' wide "trail" too.

 

You know those of us that go way back iin time to the glory days of dirt bikes grew up differently than today's quad crowd... We took it as a given that we had to work to keep things going... Now days you see more and more people take advantage of trails they find without giving any thought to how it got there in the first place. They haul in, party all weekend, tear the place up, then leave with their garbage blowing in the wind for some poor schmuck to pick up after them...

I hate to keep ragging on the younger set.. but we have created the problem by not busting their *** hard enough when they were growing up... Sparing the rod certainly had it's predictable results......

I don't know how to get that 2000 pound gorilla off our shoulders. I hope they find out for themselves before it is too late, and then they will all be criminals when they ride....