All any Michigan atver wants is the same multi-use trail system that MOST other states have already adopted in the absence of AMA chapters long living in the past and still flying the "me-only" flag.

60" multi-use trails are far from highways and actually less than what your arms would span if you held them out to your sides (which is the ugly truth; as opposed to the terms you see purposely used above to sickenly alter the debate).

 

Again, how obvious is it that these guys want to talk about anything but "what is really going on in Michigan" at this critical and historic juncture in this state's orv trail system?

We've got massive amounts of mileage on the table that nobody (evidently) knows a thing about....there is an overt behind-the-scenes effort to re-write 100% of the <U>entire</U> funding formula....not to mention.... a 25-year orv update plan that has been suddenly and inexplainably delayed by both!

It's no big mystery as to why those who started this thread refuse to comment further on any of this mess that they are up to their eyeballs in....but those of you 2-wheeled apoligists left up here to cover their tracks?...please at least give these forum readers the courtesy of nixing the "18-wheeler" comparisons while allowing the light 4-wheeled point of view to be expressed.

 

BB QUOTE*
You might have noticed that all Michigan atv club members who wouldn't tell us whether they voted to joined the motorcycle club (ditto as to what transpired at the last public board meeting)...refuse to post here anymore
END OF BB QUOTE*

No,we are tied-up in super secret MMRC meetings and filling up even more seats with our red-headed step child cousins.We would'nt want the average 'peons' peaking inside and disturbing anything.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


BB QUOTE*
there is an overt behind-the-scenes effort to re-write 100% of the entire funding formula..
END OF BB QUOTE*

Well if you know about this, than exactly how is it a 'behind-the-scenes-- effort.

The real truth here is that 95% of the folks in this forum have YOU figured out and their tired of playing your games. You bitch/moan about everything and everyone, all the while,not doing ONE damn thing yourself to rectify ANYTHING you talk about. Your a TOTAL EMBARRASSMENT to every hard working man/women that has work numerous hours for FREE and traveled 1000s of miles to meetings out of their OWN pocketbooks to get michigan ORV riders more priveledges.


***EDITED BY ATV CONNECTION MODERATOR***

The name calling, and other accusations have to stop!!

MWQ

 

Refuse?? Or dont give a damm anymore? Or are just maybe sick of it all? I notice that folks that were on your side in this have either left or have turned on you. Why is that? I dont know and it seems as though very few care at all anymore.

Even Dragginbutt has left the area.

 

My point is, you b&m about not wanting to share a trail with anything that wouldn't meet your specifications, but don't care about your tax dollars being spent on something which is much larger in scale and cost. You don't seem to mind that at all.

I'm not denying that there are some in here who show a great passion for their beliefs. But the constant denial that any other group than yours should be given any consideration, and the fact those same people refuse to start, join or maintain an organizations just shows there own narrow mindedness.

I wish all the state of Michigan good luck in getting more trails to maintain, and new ones as well. But fear that some of the views will have others sitting in the back of the bus because they are different.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...please at least give these forum readers the courtesy of nixing the "18-wheeler" comparisons while allowing the light 4-wheeled point of view to be expressed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I suppose since NASA used a four wheel vehicle on the moon, space shuttle references aren't out of order.

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
BB QUOTE*You might have noticed that all Michigan atv club members who wouldn't tell us whether they voted to joined the motorcycle club (ditto as to what transpired at the last public board meeting)...refuse to post here anymoreEND OF BB QUOTE*
(Muddy)"..No,we are tied-up in super secret MMRC meetings and filling up even more seats with our red-headed step child cousins.We would'nt want the average 'peons' peaking inside and disturbing anything...".

blackballed today:
We've already determined this through your refusal to reveal anything about the MMRC; explain why being the single-use red-headed step-child instead of fighting for OUR <u>multi-use</u> sport enthralls you or even simply relating what actually happens at public orv meetings....what's your point?

BB QUOTE*there is an overt behind-the-scenes effort to re-write 100% of the entire funding formula..END OF BB QUOTE*
(Muddy):
"..If you know about this, than exactly how is it a 'behind-the-scenes-- effort....."

(LOL!!!) [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
I suppose that if the Michigan public reads about the funding formula being ripped apart a month <u>after</u> the meeting and who knows how long before this was announced....then by gosh that's all we need to know about? Is this somewhat similiar to the creed your group evidently lives by concerning what "the public" has to say about the disposition of massive amounts of trail mileage? ("Yeah, we've got a plan....yet we sure as heck aren't going to tell you peons what percentage of trails is composed of what...nor where in the heck each trail should be placed!).

(Muddy):
"...You bitch/moan about everything and everyone, all the while,not doing ONE damn thing yourself to rectify ANYTHING you talk about...."

How can we 'rectify' what I'm talking about....when the person covering up for what's happening here (cancelled meetings; fired stenographers; super-secret public representation; the refusal to answer very simple questions; etc. etc. etc.) is standing right here before us...as if this should be how 'professional' folks operate???
For pete's sake, Muddy....take a look at my signature and tell me why your attitude should be of comfort to any of us out here believing that community-based publicly held "trail issues"...actually aren't akin to "saving the free world as we know it"???

(Muddy):
"...Your a TOTAL EMBARRASSMENT to every hard working man/women that has work numerous hours for FREE and traveled 1000s of miles to meetings out of their OWN pocketbooks to get michigan ORV riders more priveledges...."

I've travelled to the same meetings out of the same pocketbook and had to flat out stop for exactly what reason?

WHEN YOU GOT THERE, EVERY PERSON 'IN CHARGE' MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT <u>ALL</u> DECISIONS HAD ALREADY BEEN MADE AND ISSUES DISCUSSED SUFFICIENTLY **<u>BEFORE</u>** THE MEETING HAD EVER BEGAN.... AND <u>DEFINITELY</u> RIGHT ON THROUGH THE PROCEEDINGS!!!
For gosh sakes, Muddy....why would someone travel to Lansing with remarks prepared or a viewpoint to put forward...IF THOSE IN CHARGE OF SAID MEETINGS HAVE DEMONSTRATED ABSOLUTELY <u>NO</u> SHAME IN DOING THEIR DAMNEST TO SHOUT THE PUBLIC DOWN RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THEIR RIGHT TO SPEAK ....WHILE AT THE SAME TIME CLAIMING THAT YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY <u>NO</u> RIGHT TO SPEAK YOUR PEACE IN THE FIRST PLACE?

And as fs far as doing this for "free"???

When your safety organization (or any other) explains to this forum how tripling the amount taken out of every sticker sold does <u>not </u>affect the overall percentages distributed for other needs within that same funding pie (increase or not)....we'll talk about how "generous" safety intructors have been even in the days when $40 was contracted to actually do the work.....while $60 <u>per</u> <u>student</u> was kept back for "administration fees". [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

You aren't mad at me, Muddy....what upsets every one of you guys is the fact that 'anybody' has been paying attention to this goat rodeo over the years....and especially at this critical juncture where leaders certainly expected nothing but accolades...and instead received certainly <u>deserved</u> scrutiny.

 

Well, just doing a brief glimpse of this thread tells me all I need to know about it's content. It's a debate that I have taken part of on numerous occasions and is a subject that is slowly debilitating the ORV community.

We have land closures happening all around the country as urban sprawl begins to envelop the outlying areas, causing public riding areas to become smaller, more remote, or as with many cases, closed all together.

Those that push for the land closures, operate as a close knit group. Very organized and very detirmined. They rely on the strife and tension between the different factions of off road, 2 wheel, 4 wheel, buggys, trucks and sleds, to devide and conquer, and we happily let it happen.

I've seen so much bickering between off road people about who gets to ride where and when, what causes the most destruction, who has the most hooligans, and they laugh at us.

The only way to protect our riding areas is to put aside our petty differences for the good of the whole in order to save the land we have now for use by all off roaders. If not, I hope you all enjoy a rousing game of chess!![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]

TPR

 

AMEN. =]

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: TPR
Well, just doing a brief glimpse of this thread tells me all I need to know about it's content.....those that push for the land closures, operate as a close knit group. Very organized and very detirmined. They rely on the strife and tension between the different factions of off road, 2 wheel, 4 wheel, buggys, trucks and sleds, to devide and conquer, and we happily let it happen...."

Tell me something, Mr. "been there, done that; don't even need to read the thread"...why is it that most orv leaders push this same "you cant question any of us..or...or...or your a 'divider'..." garbage every time one of their longtime "buddies" in offroad recreation (or even not) goes off the deep end on some kind of power trip?
Do you somehow think that the average person enjoys pulling some orv leader to the side about overcharging parents to sit in on their kid's training classes or actually delaying the public's right to meet with them <u>and</u> state officials for up to 6 months at a time....while they either belittle you right there in public and/or turn things around to assasinate YOUR character?

Strife and tension?....for pete's sake we're talking about outright crooks here (proven) that don't even posess the intelligence to simply allow a man to have his say....and then let the majority rule! Tension?...whatever happened to calling somebody for what they were so your kid did not have to deal with him or his kind somewhere on down the road?
So what you are saying is that the public should show up at these 'only game in town' meetings (if they are held)....yet "keep their damn mouths SHUT" when terms are extrended without annoucement; contact info is witheld; anonymous groups show up with 'our' wants in hand or funding is flat out lied about?($1 out of 16 being equal to $3 out of 25.....uhhhhh 'yeah' [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]).

"...I've seen so much bickering between off road people about who gets to ride where and when, what causes the most destruction, who has the most hooligans, and they laugh at us...."

Again, why in the hell areyou worrying about what they laugh at....instead of weeding out the folks in your OWN community causing all this "strife and tension" in the first place?

Tell me something:
Why doesn't Doug Morris take me up on my offer for him and myself to set up a booth right there at the trailhead in to Windrock that admonishes the literally tens of thousands of orv riders using this HUGE system as an effective safety free zone that poisons these young kid's minds forever? Wouldn't that well-publicized fight to either crack down or shut down this popular riding area with the promotion of safe riding habits be great for 2007 AMA/ATVA membership numbers in central Appalachia, the deep south and elsewhere?
Another question:
Why won't the AMA, NOHVCC, BlueRibbon or any other national group push HARD for the concept of "pay-to-play" being our #1 motto....vs going after memberships (their #1 source of income) which unashamedly attempt to be everything to everybody? (while never taking the kind of stands which not only shape/exhibit who we actualy are or more importantly who we SHOULD be...but those which weed out the very idiots that these greenies do truly laugh at/point out <U>in</U> <U>the</U> <U>first</U> <U>place</U>).
And finallly...why should the off-road public be to blame for these riding areas being shut down.....when these local and national leaders insist that sending a check to them every year...is much more important than paying our way as environmentally responsible citizens in regards to the resource we impact? (are you here to try and convince me that $16.25 per year for a sticker covering over 3,000 miles of trails...is a figure that I can look some greenie straight in the face regarding without a tear welling up in my eye like that old indian on the horse in the littering commercial?).

Let me just get this straight....your suggestion is that Michiganders simply "stand down" and wait for these bozos to come up with yet another whacko formula for the largest trail system this country has to offer...and that this step aside is strictly because a "bigger than God" AMA member is heading this funding formula effort up once again?
What are we going to get this time....that single track fees should be separated from what the majority of this community contributes because "we don't do damage....and <u>never</u> have"???

"....The only way to protect our riding areas is to put aside our petty differences for the good of the whole in order to save the land we have now for use by all off roaders. If not...."

In other words, just keep sending money into my pals at this national organization or that....because as you've witnessed in Michigan....we are so far 'above' you peons out there in the 'uneducated' orv community that many of us (see the Michigan Recreational Riders Association) shouldn't actually even have to tell you who we are, what we do, what we believe in, how we represent you or even what went on....at the meeting last week!.

You're right...you certainly didn't need to read this thread....or more accurately respond to same with half the story in hand.