Originally posted by: Scootergptx
"....My point is, you b&m about not wanting to share a trail with anything that wouldn't meet your specifications..."

Uhhh, hold the phone, "Scooter"....if you can produce a quote ***anywhere*** in this voluminous thread which even HINTS at the assumption that I won't share my trails with the rest of this light four-wheeled community...I'll <u>quit</u> calling you an apoligist for the single-trackers who have absolutely no shame in espousing <u>just</u> <u>what</u> <u>you</u> <u>have</u> <u>claimed</u> <u>above</u>. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

Have you been drinking the single-track Kool-Aid for so long that you have even started to forget what shared or multi-use trails is actually all about....or do you motorcyclists just get so darn arrogant over time.....that you'll say just about anything to keep the rest of this community off of "your" land?

 

Sorry if everything you imply shows your obvious distaste for anything off road with less than 4 wheels in 99% of your posts.

My mistake, and I'll admit it.

Right after you show me anything that shows your willingness to compromise on any trail issues.

But it's your sandbox, and you don't want anyone to play in it if they don't follow your rules.

I can't help but feel I am not the only one who has crossed Michigan off their list of places to ride after reading this thread. But the econmony is doing so well there, I guess tourist dollars aren't needed. Congratulations on that.

Several other people have posted, and have had varying opinions. But, with the occasional sarcastic response with no harm intended, all has been well.

Except for one person. They continue to attack people and organizations, but will do no more than sit at a computer and bitch. They have many excuses for the reasons things are the way they are, but no excuses for not doing anything about it.


Michigan is a very fine state, with many very fine people in it. But one seems to have ruined it for all. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

 

I didnt even have to look past your last post BB. Scooter said "your specifications" And you responded "light 4 wheeled community". Thanks for getting along with everyone.......................................... .................................................. who meets YOUR specifications. Im suprised you didnt atleast show some diversity and include the 3 wheeled crowd. Im guessing the dont have the registration numbers to warrant your attention.

LMFAO [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Im drinking a BOOKOO Citrus this am BB, What is your excuse BB? And does anyone know where the mustard is? My hot dog is a little dry this time. Oh yah, the red headed step child has it!

 

Scooter,
here is your last QUOTE,
Except for one person. They continue to attack people and organizations, but will do no more than sit at a computer and bitch. They have many excuses for the reasons things are the way they are, but no excuses for not doing anything about it.--------End of Quote*

Thank You,
I think I've brought the very same point up many times in this same topic with regards to BB.. Tis much easier for him to sit near his PC and tell everybody else what is wrong with the system and the folks running it, than it is to get off his fat **** and make a differance himself.

It does not matter WHAT club he gets involved with, NOBODY meets his aganda of right or wrong. We have told him several times that since he cant find a ORV club of HIS liking, that he needs to start his OWN! Instead, he continues to come in here and be-little every man/women who has spent 1000s of man hours and money out of their OWN pockets, trying to improve ORV conditions.

The man is SICK and needs professional help.

 

I read and re-read this thread, and it's so conflicting I cant decide which side of the fence to fall on, Everytime I read this thread I second guess my opinion.
IF an offroad group, Lobbying for shared trails for your great state is commanded by a majority of bike enthusiast, I surely understand the conflict of interest. Not many self respecting bikers strive to ride 60" trails when nice single track is nearby.
Truly a strange situation up there.

 

Is there anything even close to this going on in NC. KTMGuy?

 

No, nothing at all like it. Like you, I enjoy quads, Bikes and even RUV's and Jeeps, and I have never seen such a group split by "wheeler choice" as what is discussed here. I have seen Bike guys come together with Atv guys and do trail cleanup, etc.. I have seen them stand together at town meetings, and yes occasionally bicker, but very, VERY mild in contrast to what is described here.

 

I'm not sure if the fact that they command this situation is worse than the fact that they lobby their single track "me-only" mantra separate fron the rest of the community.

I had an Interesting conversation one day with a politician being lobbied hard by these cyclists right in the middle of this public not knowing a thing as to what their orv leaders wanted in this 750 miles of additional trail mileage they were currently lobbying for (any more than they do today). What surprised me most (and what he even commented on as very strange) was the fact that these enthusiasts before him made no mistake of arguing their footprint/impact on the ground and environment affected in this area <u>v.s.</u> ours as crucial to their argument.

Several years before this behind-the-scenes mess....these same people showed up at one of our orv advisory meetings with the proclomation that 100 miles of trail in the Huron Forest should be forever turned over to single track and that the DNR should cough up $50,000 to make it happen! (by the way, every single person in the Michigan atv community,besides myself, shamefully sat there like a bump on the log when this was announced also).

The point here is not that one group may "desire" this or that...it is that you darn well better TRUST the group in power (as you mentioned earlier) to not go out and cowboy their own issues seaparate <u>and</u> <u>at</u> <u>the</u> expense of the rest of any off-road community.
Is this Hiawatha National Forest mileage back-door lobbied by these cyclists even included in this new "we all worked together" proposal supposedly representing this Michigan orv community's desires(?)...or will this "me-only" mileage be introduced SEPARATELY and in the same manner as the past Huron Forest proposal was...."out of the blue"...and with these good-little-boy-red-headed-step-children atvers again dutifully sitting there with their mouths shut?

I'm all for everybody having their own opinion....yet when one group informs the other that they had damn well better not so much as even question the need for properly recorded meeting minutes or even that cycle leaders should be able to cancel public meetings over "we have nothing to talk about" (right in the middle of what you out-state people up here now know to be a historic <u>mess</u>)...then well excuse me, yet I'll 'pass' on the Kool-Aid, thank-you. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

 

If this was about being "split" it would be one thing.

Respecting your opinion, which I value.....this is actually about multi-use apathy as it effects our multi-use legacy at the largest orv trail system that this country has to offer.

You can't fight for orv community land access if the those within same have absolutely no clue as to what land is being taken away from them (forever) by those continually jumping in and out of that same family <u>as</u> <u>it</u> <u>suits</u> <u>them</u>.

 

BB, perhaps using the word "split" wasnt the best choice.
I can't even pretend to understand fully whats going on up there. I'm far away and can obviously only draw conclusions from the different viewpoints on here.
I just dont understand How cyclist are this overwhelimg power that seemingly scares Michican ATvers into concession?
I love single track, Have ridden it for over 30 years, BUT I have stood with atvers (as I am very much into those as well)and voted to delete some single track in favor of some larger multi use trail in some areas, simply because its the greater Good. I have found that this relation gives a fairly good result of give and take, and have several "ATV ONLY" friends who have given up a weekend to help do some leg work in creating some single track even though they will have absolutely no benefit from it, OTHER than the formation of friendships that show a united front.
theres nothing wrong with 2 groups wanting 2 different results from a trail, however if the goverening council that oversees that creation of trails, caters to only one group, or is heavily sided with one group because of personal preference, then it will create hostility that seems to be so prevalent in this thread.

I never asked you BB, did you ever get a chance to ride the Pinnacle creek area of WV? I know I spoke about it over at utilityoffroad.