Quote by BB*,
Muddy feels that $1 out of every $16 taken out now to subsidize his training program....is exactly the same as $3 out of every $25 taken out (proposed) to fill these trainer's pockets....with absolutely no other orv programs being affected by the increased percentage
End of Quote*

And this idiot BB wonders WHY no one has much to say to him about anything he posts?This jerk goes around spreading absolute LIES [see his above quote] and now he figures its his JOB to spread these lies.The IMPORTANT folks in our sport have more important things to worry about than what some idiot behind his PC is posting in here.

This just re-supports my opinion of this useless individule.

 

Easy on the name calling Muddy! Please? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]


We all know how you feel about BB. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

Originally posted by: mywifesquad
"...I could have used "taking advantage of" instead of "enjoying". Thats basically what i meant anyway. You would take advantage of that same power if it was yours. Atleast I assume you would [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img].

I guess my point here is that in a true multi-use system (see the majority of the trails in this country) one need not worry about "power" over others in their own community or even "money" if the privitization of maintenance issues (pay-to-play) becomes a needed reality.

Gone are then the days of cyclists teaching kids that they are somehow "different" from the rest of us; along with volunteer/club maintenance becoming simply a means of reducing yearly privitized costs by <u>all</u> <u>of</u> <u>us</u> following behind 21st century modern equipment and indeed verifying that the work is done in a manner in which we all approve.

If finally uniting our community is any more complicated than that, please tell me....otherwise, I'll just keep pointing out the fact that turmoil within our own community....is 100% within our control. (if you're man enough to point it out or <u>don't</u> have a monetary stake in <u>allowing</u> this non-legacy driven mess to continue).

Hey, if I'm in the NOHVCC or AMA/ATVA making a decent living off of the "non-profit" gig with no oversight whatsoever....why in the heck would I tell these manufacturers to run their own damn races or insist that privitized maintenance/pay-to-play was the way this community should proceed? (and get back to the job of legacy building that our trail systems so desperately need?).
You know, promoting the type of orv system where orv dollars go straight to the problems/issues at hand in each state and are funneled there with the <u>help</u> of those businesses whose <u>incomes</u> are at stake on those very issues (not to mention now DIRECT help from the clubs themselves)....instead of into folk's pockets who believe that "racing is everything" or that "if by gosh you don't worship the AMA/ATVA..you're going straight to he11?

 

Again....this really "upsets" Muddy....yet he's still not prepared to talk about the subject or even the math itself....only attack those who bring the contradiction (re: potentially HUGE increase of cash into these trainer's pockets <u>at</u> <u>the</u> <u>expense</u> of other programs) forward.

As I told MWQ earlier...if you want to call somebody a "liar"....then at the very least come up with something (even 'make it up' for gosh sakes[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]) that disproves what they claim to be true! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

Hey Scooter. Yes currently some of the ORV trail system shares sled trails. And yes some of this is shut down to orv's in the winter months. I dont know what crawled up BB's butt. I didn't think that your question was that hard to answer.

I dont really know why they lock us out of these trails in the winter months. Maybe they figure that there arn't enough of us nutjobs out there that actually enjoy winter orving and close it down to us to avoid ORV / sled conflicts. I love winter riding. I ride all winter in the trails. Stud up the tires and hit the trails. Its a blast

As for the new Milage that is proposed. I dont think they are far enough along to know where it is all going to be. I am sure there are proposals to the new areas. But there is a lot of stuff that has to happen before the DNR and Feds let us start cutting trail in the woods. Enviromental impact studies and stuff like that have to be done 1st. Things that the DNR likes to drag out for months if not years. But if some of this new trail utilzes sled trail I am sure that the same closures in the winter will hold true.

 

Originally posted by: YZman400
"...Hey Scooter. Yes currently some of the ORV trail system shares sled trails. And yes some of this is shut down to orv's in the winter months. I dont know what crawled up BB's butt. I didn't think that your question was that hard to answer...."

Again, this wasn't the question.
Scooter referred to the new mileage being considered and I informed him that the Michigan public has absolutely no idea as to where our super-secret 'representatives' suggested that this mileage should go....let alone what it should look like.

As I've mentioned before; if basic English or comprehension skills aren't your 'bag'......[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

"...I don't really know why they lock us out of these trails in the winter months. Maybe they figure that there arn't enough of us nutjobs out there that actually enjoy winter orving and close it down to us to avoid ORV / sled conflicts...."

You have GOT to be kidding me........how about the fact that we can't even get our regular trails maintained properly in the first place?
What do you want to do...go out and give the CCC another couple hundred grand and call them "snow groomers" with the same kind of attitude?

".....As for the new Milage that is proposed. I dont think they are far enough along to know where it is all going to be....."

Who in the heck is "they"???

The people who shoved this idea through without asking anybody and who did their damnest to keep it a secret when questioned?
The DNR?

"...I am sure there are proposals to the new areas. But there is a lot of stuff that has to happen before the DNR and Feds let us start cutting trail in the woods....."

"Stuff that has to happen"???

HOW ABOUT EITHER THE DNR OR THE ORV COMMUNITY SUPER-SECRET "LEADERS" ACTUALLY <U>INFORMING</U> **THE PEON PUBLIC** AS TO JUST EXACTLY WHAT WE PROPOSED THEY DO WITH THIS MILEAGE <U>IN</U> <U>THE</U> <U>FIRST</U> <U>PLACE</U>!!!

These MMRC goofs show up at this last board meeting....introduce themselves <U>for</U> <U>the</U> <U>first</U> <U>time</U> after 2 years of sneaking around behind everybody's back and avoiding all questions as to even their very existence......simply nod over at the board as if to to say "you all unanimously agree with whatever vague statement we make here tonight, correct?"(they do)....and then walk out of there for yet another 3 months with guys like Muddy up here claiming that "..WE are under NO obligation to speak word one.. about ANYTHING that went on in last Wednesdays ORV meeting!.."

It's a shame, yet some things are so incredulous that you couldn't make 'em up if you had to.......[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

 

Again....this really "upsets" Muddy....yet he's still not prepared to talk about the subject or even the math itself....only attack those who bring the contradiction (re: potentially HUGE increase of cash into these trainer's pockets at the expense of other programs) forward.
END OF QUOTE*

Muddy feels that $1 out of every $16 taken out now to subsidize his training program....is exactly the same as $3 out of every $25 taken out (proposed) to fill these trainer's pockets....with absolutely no other orv programs being affected by the increased percentage
End of Quote*-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First off, along with not only being a lier, you also have a bad MEMORY! NO PART of the ORV sticker money subsidizes ANY part of my training program. I've allready embarrased you several times in regards to you misinforming our veiwers of this but since you love being de-graded, I'll remind you again---'NO PART OF THE ORV FUND SUPPORTS ANY PART OF MY SAFETY CLASSES--PERIOD!

Now to embarrass you even further, I would love to have YOU explain to these guys in here, exactly what part of my safety classes is subsidized by the ORV sticker fund?

 

So because our trails are so badly maintainaned this is the reason that some of the shared orv/sled trails are closed to orv traffic in the winter? I tend to doubt that.

I rarely get down to dirt to do any damage to the ground in the winter. The sled trails are normaly frozen solid in the winter. Its like a wide frozen ice covered highway. Awsome fun on a studded ORV. I seriousely doubt that mainenantce has anything to do with why we cant use select trails in the winter. More like to keep ORV / sled conflicts to a minimum. I know I have gotten more than one dirty look from sledders as I cruize thru the orv trails in the winter.

 

Oh and in case I forgot to mention to you before.....kiss my azz...I was talking to scooter. Not you. Keep your nose outta my f'n conversation!

..!...

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
"....First off, along with not only being a lier, you also have a bad MEMORY! NO PART of the ORV sticker money subsidizes ANY part of my training program....."

"Again"....my request for you to somehow explain this PROPOSED (do I have to get out the dictionary for you?) funding formula increase for subsidized training funds....had absolutely <U>nothing</U> to do with what you may or may not receive currently.(you just have to love how these guys attempt to change the subject when 'money' related inquiries are made).
For Pete's sake, Muddy...you were instrumental in crafting this proposal....so why in the heck would you now try and deflect attention away from its "bad math" by attacking others and calling them liars?

I'll ask my question 'again' for the 20th odd time....how do you increase training dollars without cutting other programs in the funding formula when going from $1 out of every $16.......to $3 out of every $25 sticker sold?

It has always been a simple question since the public first learned of this proposal in the board's meeting minutes (would you like a copy?)....answer it, please.