I think we need more shows on tv that involve atv's. People tend to follow what they see on television. With more shows that show safety and safe methods for doing dangerous manuvers I think more people would ride more responsably. I also think it might help the sport to grow by exposing more people to a positive apearance. There was a show on the outdoor channel that was good about that stuff. The only thing I didnt like about it was they didnt travel to too many new places.

 

Amen to that. I think image is something we might consider working on... I know a lot of us concentrate on teh bad stuff all the time, and not enough on the good... I think if we could just get one of the show makers to concentrate on teh family aspect of riding, it might help. All you see is one guy, or a group of guys out riding the trails. If that... and we all know it is about taking your child out on the trails, stopping ot look at a group of flowers, looking at some neat scenery etc. It isn't all about blasting around at top speed, jumping over mudholes etc. Maybe my age is showing, but my riding has sure changed as I got older....

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Dragginbutt

"...All you see is one guy, or a group of guys out riding the trails. If that... and we all know it is about taking your child out on the trails, stopping ot look at a group of flowers, looking at some neat scenery etc. It isn't all about blasting around at top speed, jumping over mudholes etc....."</end quote></div>

I would offer that there's just no money in it for many of our very own major orv organizations......which has been proven in the disproportionate amount of time and effort thrown into racing over the past several decades at the expense of our trail systems and public land now undergoing massive closures.

These races aren't being put on by the manufacturers; yet the manufacturers will always siphon off the best promotional talent from the orv 'non-profit' community lacking for decades to organize issues that are so much more important to the sport.

I find it very hard to support the non-profits still heavily involved both monetarily and staff-wise in 'racing' while our entire trail system goes down the tubes over the wholesale neglect of a travel management issue that national orv leaders saw coming for literally decades (but didn't have the guts to even so much as comment on).

I'm also all for promoting the sport as you've alluded to; yet who is going to tell these manufacturers that the vast majority of us are truly not out there on the racetrack...and more importantly....that the local non-profit guys we're supposed to send money into running local races at the expense of truly organizing our sport for all these years, are (finally) out of a job?

These guys not only want us split up (not under the same organizational roof)....but they DEMAND that a good chunk of any resources sent in be diverted towards something that does the sport not a damn bit of good for anybody but those directly profiting from it.

 

The simple fact is that the radicals and racer types spend a heck of a lot more $ modifying their rides. That makes profits, and steers the sport. It wasn't all that long ago when industry leaders were saying the sport models were on their way out. Even though the utility machines still outsell the sport machines, the media will continue to cater to the sport guys because the aftermarket is their bread and butter. We old guys with our cushy utes just don't care to flash the bling. Keeping it on the trail, moving forward is much more important to us than having the latest wheel package. We know the value of a dollar earned and a dollar saved I guess. We use them, enjoy them etc, but we do not worship them like many of your sport guys. No offense guys... just a different point of view.... There is room for both of us out there. We need each other if this is going to continue.

 

Agreed.
I can forgive the 'media' for following the racing dollar....yet there is absolutely no reason that our community membership dollars should have ever been spent to support it; a diversion of funds that has forced division within our ranks (see the red-headed-step-child ATVA) and squandered those precious monetary resources for the sake of a few cushy non-profit careers that haven't payed the sport back a dime.

As always, nobody has had the guts to talk about any of this publicly...which keeps the 'old school' businees model plugging along and these career non-profit employees off of the street.

 

I just had a friend that broke his neck and has a 5% chance to ever move anything below the top of his shoulders. I'm going to ride today.

 

Ah BBalled, we have been over this before. We have to leave it behind and move on. It is time to concentrate on a positive approach to the sport and leave teh past behind us. What was done is done. Instead of jumping on a soap box every time one of them hard cases makes a move, we need to do something else. Maybe concentrate on teh positive side of the sport and flooding the media with it. Perhaps we will change a few opinions. The stories are out there. Like that kid last summer lost in the muntains out west that was found by a guy on an ATV. He covered a lot more ground on his ATV than someone on foot. Those are real stories. I am sure there are some clubs that host a ride for a charity case etc. Come on folks, the sport has it's good sides too. Riding ATV's isn't supposed to be about anger.. or dwelling on bad things. Accidents happen. Sure, there are a lot of stupid people out there that just plain do not know better. That is our challenge. Educate them. That is where we will do the most good. Yes there will be some who react poorly. Ya can't fix what doesn't want fixing.. but you tried. Do the right thing, set the good example, and concentrate on the positives... you will live longer...

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Dragginbutt

"...It is time to concentrate on a positive approach to the sport and leave the past behind us. What was done is done. ...Ya can't fix what doesn't want fixing.. but you tried...."</end quote></div>

I'd like you to explain the above to all of these kid's parents who have lost their precious child or were left with him or her maimed for life over the past two decades or so.

Windrock and/or the atv community didn't pave or lead the way for these "it's about time/thank God" safety laws about to take effect in Tennessee....

Southeastern KY went literally kicking and streaming into wearing helmets when they opened recently....

...and southern WV is literally a safety-free zone (off the H/M system) in and of itself not because there are fees to be paid to ride the pay-to-play trail that is properly maintained...but because safety related rules DO exist there.

Sorry, DB; but your "positive approach" killed one heck of a lot of kids and adults these past two decades simply because folks weren't willing to call a spade a spade nor get right in the middle of these issues where just plain nastiness and even threats were certainly the norm.

Those hundreds of kids are all now DEAD, DB....and if you want to put a pie-in-the-sky pollyanna spin on how 99.9% of us simply didn't have the guts to put a stop to this one heck of a long time ago or how we should <u>now</u> look back or forward 'positively' to what is still happening right to this very day...then 'spin away' my friend and certainly keep <u>me</u> out of it.

 

BB

Read this: "History of how we got to where we are in regards to ATV Safety...or lack thereof."

 

From the article and thank you very much for posting it:
"...In part, it's also a matter of good intentions gone awry. Moving to more stable, four-wheel models was an improvement, but a side effect was to shift the safety debate to rider behavior and away from ATV design...."

As we all know, that type of serious debate never happened within this so-called 'united' orv community and obviously never will.
I used to approach manufacturer-sponsored speed shops in regards to not sponsoring anything or even asking for money....but simply trying to get the word out on a new type of youth atv safety training course that both Muddy4Life and I were holding for the first time ever in this area. Save the very smallest dealership in the region who voluntarily (without asking) provided us a youth quad...the overall interest in youth training programs was absolutely appalling; as was any interest in the proper maintenance of our local trail system as related to safety... <u>hands</u> <u>down</u>.

As I stated earlier; nobody has had the guts to comment on what has been happening in places like WV.; TN; KY. or hundreds of other places all across this country where safety is literally sneered at and the proponents of same even attacked for promoting it. Our orv non-profit leaders have purposely stayed away from going on the offensive regarding this subject and/or condemning places where this has been happening....simply because doing so would have resulted in a loss of membership money for them and most likely the loss of their cushy "we write off our riding weekends" so-called phony orv careers.

Sorry, but I don't like the fact that this guy has gone over to the 'dark side' either (his coworkers were correct; as design hasn't changed one bit) or the fact that earlier research is now abandoned because we are somehow supposed to supplant the "Chinese" as now our #1 threat here.
Tell me, how much would YOU pay this guy as a manufacturer to kill effectively two birds with one stone (both your fast-growing competition and the creation of a non-introspectrive end-around safety campaign) to turn the focus <u>off</u> of your very own dealers or these largely un-regulated riding areas that have traditionally caused the most injuries...but guess what...have sold a pretty good number of quads over the years???.

Cheap quads aren't killing our kids here...it's the fact that speaking out against our very own orv leaders on this subject and many others such as pay-to-play; strict enforcement and equal multi-use access...gets you booted out of this community or severely restricted from ever forcing the kind of 'take sides' parental behavior that leads to truly helping these kids in the first place.

Oh, I forgot; it's as simple and easy as us all seeking that Xanadu inspired good 'ol "positive attitude" DB chided me earler about...then (by gosh) all of these kids will finally receive the organizational-type legacy-driven structure behind them to indeed recreately safely well into the future.

Sorry, but I don't view dead, injured or maimed kids as anything 'positive'...and I'm certainly not seeing a whole heck of a lot being done about it other than trying silence folks like myself simply willing to speak their peace.