why is the 2 stroke pollution so bad
#31
10-31-2007, 10:57 PM
Supersock
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why is the 2 stroke pollution so bad
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: reconranger
I guess I am use to throwing ideas like this around with doctors and medical students, so I never imagined that the level of ignorance was so great out there!</end quote></div>
As a person on the outside looking in, it's even more amazing. Just goes to show, sometimes all degrees are good for is telling the temperature. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
I guess I am use to throwing ideas like this around with doctors and medical students, so I never imagined that the level of ignorance was so great out there!</end quote></div>
As a person on the outside looking in, it's even more amazing. Just goes to show, sometimes all degrees are good for is telling the temperature. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
#32
10-31-2007, 11:14 PM
KTM Patrol
Former Chinese POW!
Former Chinese POW!
#33
11-01-2007, 03:59 AM
why is the 2 stroke pollution so bad
Since Reconranger has thus far been unwilling or unable to produce any science behind his claim of the association between breast cancer and 2-cycle motorcycle exhaust, I guess I can hardly call him on it unless I produce some credible research that sides with the notion that there is no link.
I found and read this in-depth scientific study of motorcycle emissions and the measured pollutant emissions against the OSHA limits for a 8 hour day, 40 week exposure to the airborne exhaust.
There is a complete list of pollutants and a description of each and their known carcinogenicity. The shortcuts: look at Table 1 for the list of chemicals in motorcycle emissions, Table 10 for the measured amounts against the OSHA limits, and Section 5 - Health effects of Pollutants starting on page 25.
copy/past link
http://nfp-it.eionet.eu.int:89..._Emissions_Report.pdf
If you take the time to study this report you will see that all measured emissions fell under the OSHA limit for 40 hours of exposure each week. Of the know carcinogenic chemicals, none were related to breast cancer.
Before you start calling us a bunch of hillbillies maybe you should look into the mirror first.
I found and read this in-depth scientific study of motorcycle emissions and the measured pollutant emissions against the OSHA limits for a 8 hour day, 40 week exposure to the airborne exhaust.
There is a complete list of pollutants and a description of each and their known carcinogenicity. The shortcuts: look at Table 1 for the list of chemicals in motorcycle emissions, Table 10 for the measured amounts against the OSHA limits, and Section 5 - Health effects of Pollutants starting on page 25.
copy/past link
http://nfp-it.eionet.eu.int:89..._Emissions_Report.pdf
If you take the time to study this report you will see that all measured emissions fell under the OSHA limit for 40 hours of exposure each week. Of the know carcinogenic chemicals, none were related to breast cancer.
Before you start calling us a bunch of hillbillies maybe you should look into the mirror first.
#34
11-01-2007, 02:32 PM
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why is the 2 stroke pollution so bad
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: OhHell
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: reconranger
I guess I am use to throwing ideas like this around with doctors and medical students, so I never imagined that the level of ignorance was so great out there!</end quote></div>
So you throw a far fetched idea out there, and because everyone does not fall all over themselves to agree with you, that makes them ignorant.
I'm not saying that there is no merit to what you say, But the fact is, it's just an idea.
No proof of any kind to back it up.
So an idea without proof is subject to skepticism.
And to you that makes all skeptics ignorant.
That is a typical liberal tactic. If you cant come up with a logical defense when someone calls your hand, then start slinging insults. If you wasn't from one of the most left wing, liberal states in America I might be surprised.</end quote></div>
Hey, who you callin Liberal...or as we like to call them.....intellectually challenged...
You make some great points there.
Why yes, I am surrounded by the intellectually challenged....but not to fear Nancy Peloci wants to tax stock market windfalls and the rich to make sure the illegals have enough money for their free healthcare we don't get...add Boxer and Feinstein and my god what a trifecta!!!! Please let them all get hit by a bus.
It's the only bad thing in Cali...
TPR
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: reconranger
I guess I am use to throwing ideas like this around with doctors and medical students, so I never imagined that the level of ignorance was so great out there!</end quote></div>
So you throw a far fetched idea out there, and because everyone does not fall all over themselves to agree with you, that makes them ignorant.
I'm not saying that there is no merit to what you say, But the fact is, it's just an idea.
No proof of any kind to back it up.
So an idea without proof is subject to skepticism.
And to you that makes all skeptics ignorant.
That is a typical liberal tactic. If you cant come up with a logical defense when someone calls your hand, then start slinging insults. If you wasn't from one of the most left wing, liberal states in America I might be surprised.</end quote></div>
Hey, who you callin Liberal...or as we like to call them.....intellectually challenged...
You make some great points there.
Why yes, I am surrounded by the intellectually challenged....but not to fear Nancy Peloci wants to tax stock market windfalls and the rich to make sure the illegals have enough money for their free healthcare we don't get...add Boxer and Feinstein and my god what a trifecta!!!! Please let them all get hit by a bus.
It's the only bad thing in Cali...
TPR
#35
11-01-2007, 06:09 PM
why is the 2 stroke pollution so bad
I can believe 2 strokes an even 4 strokes cause cancer.Anything combustible has alot of toxic stuff in it including PAHs,free radicals benzenes monoxide etc,I should know Im a firefighter,they dont make ya wear a SCBA for nothing.The oil in 2 stroke pre mix has solvents in it to help it burn an when you burn something you get different compositions to form that probably for the most part arent good for your lungs or digestive/filtering systems.I lost both my parents 2 cancer so it scares the Hell out of me when I hear the C word.I try not to dwell on it an enjoy life an if it happens I will have to deal w it when I cross that bridge.I prolly will get hell for slamming 2 strokes but the facts are the facts an the truth is the truth.By the way I sucked at science an math in school but I can still see both sides of the coin an have an intelliigent convo w any 1.Thats why the science community is going after asians and indians for chemists,science careers we are 2 stuck on idiotacy an video games an when we ever wake up it will be 2 late well be done to do anything about it.Its all about ambition an alot of other races have everything to gain an nothing to lose plus we have become very complacent but thats another story.Sorry bout the long thread.
#36
11-02-2007, 12:29 AM
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why is the 2 stroke pollution so bad
ok lets get out of the cancer **** cause we can go on with this **** forever none of us realy no what causes it.
so lets get in to the cost, witch one is cheaper to make, build, and buy. ok and lets see for ALL THOSE PEOPLE THAT DRAG RACE THEM AND ALREADY OWN THEM what are they suspose to do when they stop making oil to mix for them or the parts to rebiuld them. no one thinks of that and there are many of other things.
this is a project for my english class i have to right a paper on debating about getting rid of two strokes. i love them and never want them to leave i love the smell and the power it is unexplainalbe
so lets get in to the cost, witch one is cheaper to make, build, and buy. ok and lets see for ALL THOSE PEOPLE THAT DRAG RACE THEM AND ALREADY OWN THEM what are they suspose to do when they stop making oil to mix for them or the parts to rebiuld them. no one thinks of that and there are many of other things.
this is a project for my english class i have to right a paper on debating about getting rid of two strokes. i love them and never want them to leave i love the smell and the power it is unexplainalbe
#37
11-02-2007, 12:30 AM
why is the 2 stroke pollution so bad
@sugarhead - were you able to get the link to work in the above post? I edited the post to another link which I think works better. Plenty of toxic emissions come from both 2 and 4 stroke engines (Table 3). The main difference is whether engines are EFi or carburettor. Also the main difference is 2 stroke produce much more particulate emissions than 4 strokes. (Ref 2.2) Both produce plenty of the other carcinogenic elements to worry everyone.
I think a lot of folks here including Reconranger under the impression that 4 strokes produce less of the bad stuff while the fact is they both are bad and the reduced particulates are what makes 4 strokes mandated.
I don't know about Asians but I can tell you most posting in this thread do not seem to do much research nor care if they make "factual" claims which are in fact not backed up with anything other than speculation or "just makes sense" analysis. I don't see much science in these posts.
I think a lot of folks here including Reconranger under the impression that 4 strokes produce less of the bad stuff while the fact is they both are bad and the reduced particulates are what makes 4 strokes mandated.
I don't know about Asians but I can tell you most posting in this thread do not seem to do much research nor care if they make "factual" claims which are in fact not backed up with anything other than speculation or "just makes sense" analysis. I don't see much science in these posts.
#38
11-02-2007, 08:55 AM
KTM Patrol
Former Chinese POW!
Former Chinese POW!
why is the 2 stroke pollution so bad
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: windtrader
I don't know about Asians but I can tell you most posting in this thread do not seem to do much research nor care if they make "factual" claims which are in fact not backed up with anything other than speculation or "just makes sense" analysis. I don't see much science in these posts.</end quote></div>
It seems to me that includes reconrangers origional comment. No facts...just a comment. Not even much common sense in it.
I personally am not very impressed with science over all...Why? 2 examples......science has brought us global warming, even though just 30 years ago when I was in HS "science" was warning of the next ice age. I guess there wasnt any money to be made off of a ice age.
And of course science has brought us the theory of evolution. More BS if you ask me.
I don't know about Asians but I can tell you most posting in this thread do not seem to do much research nor care if they make "factual" claims which are in fact not backed up with anything other than speculation or "just makes sense" analysis. I don't see much science in these posts.</end quote></div>
It seems to me that includes reconrangers origional comment. No facts...just a comment. Not even much common sense in it.
I personally am not very impressed with science over all...Why? 2 examples......science has brought us global warming, even though just 30 years ago when I was in HS "science" was warning of the next ice age. I guess there wasnt any money to be made off of a ice age.
And of course science has brought us the theory of evolution. More BS if you ask me.
#39
11-02-2007, 09:49 AM
why is the 2 stroke pollution so bad
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: mywifesquad
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: windtrader
I don't know about Asians but I can tell you most posting in this thread do not seem to do much research nor care if they make "factual" claims which are in fact not backed up with anything other than speculation or "just makes sense" analysis. I don't see much science in these posts.</end quote></div>
It seems to me that includes reconrangers origional comment. No facts...just a comment. Not even much common sense in it.
I personally am not very impressed with science over all...Why? 2 examples......science has brought us global warming, even though just 30 years ago when I was in HS "science" was warning of the next ice age. I guess there wasnt any money to be made off of a ice age.
And of course science has brought us the theory of evolution. More BS if you ask me.</end quote></div>
I was going to say, I haven't seen anyone in here post any evidence to anything. I just believe we'd have to get rid of 2-strokes, 4-strokes, peanuts, cotton, care bears, etc. if we got rid of everything that was supposedly harmful.
And I fully agree on the science comments, a lot of BS comes from it. And a whole lot of BS comes from people that have to "announce" how intelligent they are.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: windtrader
I don't know about Asians but I can tell you most posting in this thread do not seem to do much research nor care if they make "factual" claims which are in fact not backed up with anything other than speculation or "just makes sense" analysis. I don't see much science in these posts.</end quote></div>
It seems to me that includes reconrangers origional comment. No facts...just a comment. Not even much common sense in it.
I personally am not very impressed with science over all...Why? 2 examples......science has brought us global warming, even though just 30 years ago when I was in HS "science" was warning of the next ice age. I guess there wasnt any money to be made off of a ice age.
And of course science has brought us the theory of evolution. More BS if you ask me.</end quote></div>
I was going to say, I haven't seen anyone in here post any evidence to anything. I just believe we'd have to get rid of 2-strokes, 4-strokes, peanuts, cotton, care bears, etc. if we got rid of everything that was supposedly harmful.
And I fully agree on the science comments, a lot of BS comes from it. And a whole lot of BS comes from people that have to "announce" how intelligent they are.
#40
11-02-2007, 12:26 PM
why is the 2 stroke pollution so bad
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>I personally am not very impressed with science over all...Why? 2 examples......science has brought us global warming, even though just 30 years ago when I was in HS "science" was warning of the next ice age. I guess there wasnt any money to be made off of a ice age.</end quote></div>
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>And I fully agree on the science comments, a lot of BS comes from it. </end quote></div>
Do I catch a bit of skepticism in those comments?? :-) I'll agree that some of what is reported from various "scientific" studies must be inaccurate since different studies produce results that directly conflict others studying the exact same thing. And if we believed all the studies we would have to stop breathing and eating and moving and living and doing jack shi... FA or we would die in an instant.
That said, I think I have a couple more years on MWQ and when I was in school there were many things which were mysteries but science has proven over the past decades definitive advancement in the knowledge in many areas. I remember when a guess could beat a weather report; they could not get the afternoon weather predicted much less tomorrow or a couple days out. I always used to look at the globe and continents thought they sort of looked like pieces of a puzzle. Plate tectonics have proven that the movement of earth masses does indeed separate various continents. And what about the most recent advances in DNA science. It is quite amazing that they can really read the "blueprint" of a human and link various parts of it to specific features, conditions, and ailments.
And finally as to global warming, if you want my copy of Al's DVD, you can't have it as i used it as a cutoff blade in my grinder; sorry to say it did not last long. Yes, the earth is warming, that is fact. What is actually causing it, man or nature, combination, or something all together unknown as yet, I don't buy this science in a heartbeat. :-)
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>And I fully agree on the science comments, a lot of BS comes from it. </end quote></div>
Do I catch a bit of skepticism in those comments?? :-) I'll agree that some of what is reported from various "scientific" studies must be inaccurate since different studies produce results that directly conflict others studying the exact same thing. And if we believed all the studies we would have to stop breathing and eating and moving and living and doing jack shi... FA or we would die in an instant.
That said, I think I have a couple more years on MWQ and when I was in school there were many things which were mysteries but science has proven over the past decades definitive advancement in the knowledge in many areas. I remember when a guess could beat a weather report; they could not get the afternoon weather predicted much less tomorrow or a couple days out. I always used to look at the globe and continents thought they sort of looked like pieces of a puzzle. Plate tectonics have proven that the movement of earth masses does indeed separate various continents. And what about the most recent advances in DNA science. It is quite amazing that they can really read the "blueprint" of a human and link various parts of it to specific features, conditions, and ailments.
And finally as to global warming, if you want my copy of Al's DVD, you can't have it as i used it as a cutoff blade in my grinder; sorry to say it did not last long. Yes, the earth is warming, that is fact. What is actually causing it, man or nature, combination, or something all together unknown as yet, I don't buy this science in a heartbeat. :-)