Yeah, they were getting grief from other groups too.

Imagine that, Americans securing the American border. And the government did not approve.

 

Hey! Yeah, there was/is the minutemen. Problematic beacuase of white supremisist ties. Real ones, not make headlines ones. KQ 400 makes a very intersting point? A public/private partnership. I have long argued that it works great in the arena of low income housing, as opposed to strictly government run housing (a nightmare, that is what folks mean when they say the "projects"). Worth thinking through for sure.

Moose- the 2nd ammendment is far from that simple. The most puzzling little sentance or 2 imaginable. By no means take this as a slap at "the right to bear arms." I do so. But it is not so simple when you read it over and over. Heck, Supreme Court Justices can't find common ground on it. The need to create and retain militia is certainly clear (interpreted as the National Guard). Beyond that, the debate is hot and heavy and for good reason. Also, we are NOT granted any rights. Designed this way intentionally, the Federal Government IS PROHIBITED from... These are called negative rights. Positive rights would be more like the UN Declaration of Human Rights. Of course Eleanor Roosevelt had a big hand in drafting those.

No one is going to get crazy with the border. No one. Not Reagan (who DID amnesty by the way) or Bush or Clinton or Obama. All the same issue. I just get frustrated reading people mixing it up as a national security issue. Sure it is. But not one billionth of the Pacific 3 state coastal border, or the Eastern coastal border. I have programs in Port Newark (Bayway), one of the top 2 busiest ports in the US. You could get a freakin anything through there. If it fits in Sealand container no worries. The US/Mexico border is IRRELEVANT from a national security perspective. OK, maybe it is some percentage releavant, just because it is a border and we assume the radiological device headed our way (mine, not yours BTW) will come from another country. Not a slam dunk on that perception though?


NOTE FROM THE DAWG: We will not be making any more personal attacks on anyone in here.... Those that continue will be sitting the corner for a time out...

 

Yes, the infamous "minutemen". Definite ties to white supremacist groups. I don't have anything to back this up at the moment (didn't look), but I vaguely remember them shooting people, then getting shot at. Can't remember the particulars, but it was not a good situation. Some of them were doing it as a kind of sport. Just a bunch of whack-jobs as far as I can tell.

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"Take J.T. Ready for example. The Arizona resident and National Alliance member is seen in a video with Chris Simcox, the co-founder of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, patrolling near the US-Mexico border".

“What I’m fighting for primarily at this point is the survival of the white race,” says Ready, who announced he was a member of the National Alliance after Obama won the election, according to the video. Ready also says he supports what he calls a “racial holy war.”




Left to right, Simcox and Ready.

 

Hey Scooter, tongue in cheeck right? Killing innocent people, like lynching and other horrific hate crimes is not generally cool and this is supported by reams of federal laws. Yes, FEDERAL laws. Why? Because some states are rather casual about people of a certain demographic being killed by their (non-native mind you) local white people. Said fact has caused the passage of numerous laws to pre-empt state jurisdiction. Ask yourself this... "do you support the US Constitution?" Do you know why it exists? Seriously, and most people don't beacause every country has one, we just use ours (thank goodness). It exists to protect against democracy from devolving into a simple tyranny of the masses. That's a fact Jack. Some inalienable rights, some core values and principles, some basic "we MUST be "X" kind of people" stuff. it is a good thing. 51% of people can do a lot of harm to 49%.

You know that Hitler only got 26% of the vote? There happened to be like 6 parties so he had the majority. Nothing good came of that. Max Weber had a point. Careful and calculated change, with a spirited debate, is a GOOD thing.

 

Good question a lot of people need to review now and again.

The handlers are doing an excellent job transferring their opinions. Suddenly all this "Constitution" talk. I bet if you ask Sarah Palin what the Constitution is she couldn't tell you.

The Right falls out of power for 500 days now, and we're all led to believe the nation is in serious, serious jeopardy. How little faith they have in our system......Don't worry, you'll get control again.

I was in a plumbing supply house the other day and this clown next to me was telling the clerk that the Chinese are plotting to take over America in ten years time.....Of course it was all Obama's fault....."That goddamn guy is going to get us all killed". He was visibly angered looking around to see if people were listening to him.

 

I highly recommend reading the Federalist Papers if anyone has questions about what they meant when they wrote the Amendments to the Constitution. The National Guard argument didn't come into play until the late 1960s if I remember correctly. Bartley Fox??? I don't remember exact dates but it was around this time. A militia in colonial times was simply the people coming together for a common defense. The wording is: ...it is the right "of the people" to keep and bear arms. (emphasis added) That is to say an American citizen can keep and bear arms. If we applied the same tactics that are used against the 2nd Amendment to the 1st Amendment the liberals would be having a fit. When, in fact, the 2nd Amendment is what gives teeth to the citizens to defend all the others. Am I calling for a revolution? No, but we should have that ability as a last ditch resort if things ever get as bad as they were pre Revolutionary War.

On the oceanic ways of bringing in terrorists and their weapons I agree. My sister-in-law works for a company that builds the x-ray and "sniffing" machines for ports of entry and airports. They have been going all out since 2001 and it is SLOWLY being put in place. I just don't think either our land or sea borders should be neglected. Radical Islamists have declared war and hate us. We have to be diligent.

 

Nobody is taking our arms away. Where is this coming from...what is the basis of hoarding arms and ammunition?

As bad a they were pre-Revolutionary War.....We were fighting for independence from the King of England due to lack of representaion, to create a nation, not break one apart because the Right temporarily lost an election...As if they've got some god-given power to govern, and I'm sure many actually believe this to be true.

And all this talk of Texas leaving the Union....what a joke that is. The great conservatives of Texas are the largest receivers of Federal funds in the US. We'd need to build a pretty big fence around Texas to keep them out of our USA. A huge electric fence and the minutemen with rifles every few hundred yards shooting at them. That governor of Texas, Rick Perry....he's got his hand out for billions of our tax dollars, then endlessly badmouths Washington while they fill in coffers for the umpteenth time. Believe the man just balanced his budget with money he claimed not to want.

 

Good points Moose and FR. Moose, I was not challenging this interpretation of the 2nd Ammendment. I agree completely. Even with how you have it stated. The author(s) knew we were SOL without the militias so they enshrined their existince (or possibility) into law for ever in the ultimate policy doctrine. Wouldn't you, given the times and circumstances?

I used to beilieve there was some logic to the end of your 1st paragraph, and this is nothing personal at all, just a fact... Even with unlimited automatic weapons this scenario is long gone. Air power and armor, but airpower and satellite technology? Gone. It is why our enemies (who have zillions of guns and limitles ammo) use suicide bombers. Explosive and WMD technology have just escalated so quickly, that argument (TO ME) is irrelevant (and I have no intention of giving up my right to bear arms, just a technical issue).

FR- I get you alright. It is a really serious problem. One that threatens our very democracy. And it is NOT partisan. Not a liberal or conservative issue. It is a media, permanent campaign mode issue. It will destroy us. I have ranted about it before, but it is incidious and cowardly. I have said it before... We are 10,000 times better off letting the side that gets control run like crazy and correcting the pendulum when voters decide it is high time (heck, sometimes things youmight disagree with endure as good ideas, like SSD and relationships with China). The opposite, a paralized federal government, with everyone affraid to say a damn thing that might upset "their base" is VERY BAD! A body such as the US federal government not doing its job is dangerous. Worried about terrorists from Mexico? HA! Nothing compared to Rome with Nero fideling while Rome is burning.

 

Dawg- I am sorry if I offended anyone. I don't understand though. I think Moose and FR would both even agree (maybe just my perception). But we have made some spirited but civil exchanges of information and I agree with bits and pieces from both of them and have said so on the forum? Just did again, and this is not revisionist history. I have not seen a personal attack here. Again, I mean no disrespect, I'm just not sure what or where the line might be since your message is attached to my thread. I think port security is a VERY valid point of discussion? Especially given the nature of the original post. As is the 2nd Ammendment? At least in this deep dark corner of the forum. I mean read Moose's (is that the correct grammer for a plural of Moose?) reply, I am learning A LOT from him! Not challenging, just checking.

 

Back to the original topic,I say salute Arizona and any other state that acts to protect it's people! I support them 100%

This last week there was a "sweep" through central Washington to round up criminals and 32 of them were rounded up (drug violators, rapists, murderers and illegal immigrants etc....) The public is calling for them to do it again!! Good job!!!