Where's the brain?
#44
11-25-1999, 09:06 PM
My Dear Brother Bob Pflueeb,
Hear your brothers' words. No, you will not find them in the "funny papers." Is what they say so very funny?
Brother Sickman reported in this very thread that Honda alone paid over $2 billion in claims in a single year, 1987. If Honda sold 50,000 ATVs that year, they had to add an additional $40,000 to the price tag of each one ATV, AND WHO DO YOU THINK HAD TO PAY THAT????? HMMMMMM??? IT WASN'T LAWYERS, WAS IT?
Brother Sickman also told us how they took away our three wheelers and the TRX250! WAS THAT FUNNY? HMMMMMMM? DOES IT MAKE YOU LAUGH????? Didn't you read where Brother Sickman told us that Honda paid out $3 million dollars in just ONE claim. FIGURE THAT OUT! If they sold 50,000 ATVs that year, then Honda had to increase its prices by $60 per quad! WHO DO YOU THINK PAID FOR THAT ONE SINGLE CLAIM????? NOT LAWYERS! If Honda had just 100 other claims in that year, that would be $6,000 per quad! WHO'S GOING TO PAY THAT. Let me give you one guess - NOT LAWYERS!!!!
Didn't you read MDelby's post about how the legal system is being used to transfer wealth at an all time high????? He has to carry millions of dollars in insurance!!!! Did you not hear his words? J.C. Balhoun reported that 70% of the world's lawyers live in the USA? AND just ONE of them made $3 Billion dollars in a case against the tobacco companies? That lawyer's fees for the one case alone cost 100 million smokers $3,000 apiece that one year!!!! IS THAT FUNNY???? YOU DON'T SEE JOE CAMEL LAUGHING ANYMORE, DO YOU?
Didn't you read Tree Farmer's messages? HMMMMMMM? Who caused us to lose the Corvair? Why don't we have ATCs anymore? HMMMMMMM??? WHAT'S THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT MCDONALDS COFFEE????? HMMMMMMMM?? DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT CITIES WERE SUING LEGAL GUN MANUFACTURERS???? Who do you think filed those suits? LAWYERS!!!! RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF AN ABOLONE CRISIS!!!!! READ IT YOURSELF!!!!! HEAR YOUR BROTHERS!
Didn't you read MikeChero's post where he reported that Ted Kennedy has killed more people with his car than all 10,000 people at Camp Perry DID LAST YEAR, AND THEY WERE ARMED WITH FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPONS?!!!!!! DID YOU KNOW THAT TED KENNEDY IS A LAWYER!!!!! HMMMMMMMMM??????!!!! DID YOU KNOW THAT ALMOST EVERYONE IN MASSACHUSETTS IS A LAWYER????
Wake up, dear brother Bob. Hear your brothers. Certainly you would not look for them in the "funny papers?" No, Mutt and Jeff are not lawyers, nor is Charlie Brown. Superman and Spiderman are not lawyers. The Flintstones were not lawyers, WERE THEY? NOOOOOOOO!!!! WHY ARE THERE NO LAWYERS IN THE FUNNY PAPERS? MAYBE LAWYERS HAVE THREATENED TO SUE ANYONE WHO WOULD CAUSE THEM RIDICULE????!!!! It is time, brother Bob, to seek the truth, and that is not in the funny papers. It is in the monthly S.A.D. newsletter, which for a small contribution of $100.00 you may receive a complimentary copy.
Until then, brother Bob,
kclayd
President/Treasurer, S.A.D.
(S.A.D. accepts VISA and Mastercard)
[This message has been edited by kclayd (edited 11-25-1999).]
Hear your brothers' words. No, you will not find them in the "funny papers." Is what they say so very funny?
Brother Sickman reported in this very thread that Honda alone paid over $2 billion in claims in a single year, 1987. If Honda sold 50,000 ATVs that year, they had to add an additional $40,000 to the price tag of each one ATV, AND WHO DO YOU THINK HAD TO PAY THAT????? HMMMMMM??? IT WASN'T LAWYERS, WAS IT?
Brother Sickman also told us how they took away our three wheelers and the TRX250! WAS THAT FUNNY? HMMMMMMM? DOES IT MAKE YOU LAUGH????? Didn't you read where Brother Sickman told us that Honda paid out $3 million dollars in just ONE claim. FIGURE THAT OUT! If they sold 50,000 ATVs that year, then Honda had to increase its prices by $60 per quad! WHO DO YOU THINK PAID FOR THAT ONE SINGLE CLAIM????? NOT LAWYERS! If Honda had just 100 other claims in that year, that would be $6,000 per quad! WHO'S GOING TO PAY THAT. Let me give you one guess - NOT LAWYERS!!!!
Didn't you read MDelby's post about how the legal system is being used to transfer wealth at an all time high????? He has to carry millions of dollars in insurance!!!! Did you not hear his words? J.C. Balhoun reported that 70% of the world's lawyers live in the USA? AND just ONE of them made $3 Billion dollars in a case against the tobacco companies? That lawyer's fees for the one case alone cost 100 million smokers $3,000 apiece that one year!!!! IS THAT FUNNY???? YOU DON'T SEE JOE CAMEL LAUGHING ANYMORE, DO YOU?
Didn't you read Tree Farmer's messages? HMMMMMMM? Who caused us to lose the Corvair? Why don't we have ATCs anymore? HMMMMMMM??? WHAT'S THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT MCDONALDS COFFEE????? HMMMMMMMM?? DIDN'T YOU KNOW THAT CITIES WERE SUING LEGAL GUN MANUFACTURERS???? Who do you think filed those suits? LAWYERS!!!! RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF AN ABOLONE CRISIS!!!!! READ IT YOURSELF!!!!! HEAR YOUR BROTHERS!
Didn't you read MikeChero's post where he reported that Ted Kennedy has killed more people with his car than all 10,000 people at Camp Perry DID LAST YEAR, AND THEY WERE ARMED WITH FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPONS?!!!!!! DID YOU KNOW THAT TED KENNEDY IS A LAWYER!!!!! HMMMMMMMMM??????!!!! DID YOU KNOW THAT ALMOST EVERYONE IN MASSACHUSETTS IS A LAWYER????
Wake up, dear brother Bob. Hear your brothers. Certainly you would not look for them in the "funny papers?" No, Mutt and Jeff are not lawyers, nor is Charlie Brown. Superman and Spiderman are not lawyers. The Flintstones were not lawyers, WERE THEY? NOOOOOOOO!!!! WHY ARE THERE NO LAWYERS IN THE FUNNY PAPERS? MAYBE LAWYERS HAVE THREATENED TO SUE ANYONE WHO WOULD CAUSE THEM RIDICULE????!!!! It is time, brother Bob, to seek the truth, and that is not in the funny papers. It is in the monthly S.A.D. newsletter, which for a small contribution of $100.00 you may receive a complimentary copy.
Until then, brother Bob,
kclayd
President/Treasurer, S.A.D.
(S.A.D. accepts VISA and Mastercard)
[This message has been edited by kclayd (edited 11-25-1999).]
#45
12-05-1999, 12:11 PM
This thread had a lot of promise. 3Cross brought to our attention a serious issue. A 5 year old child was seriously injured on an adult ATV, and could have died, as the result of irresponsible conduct of adults. Members of this forum were invited to discuss the most important issue in ATVing, and that is injuries to children on adult ATVs.
Instead, the thread turned into a diatribe against lawyers. It was a debate which was waged by hearsay stories and unresearched opinions. There were claims that the ATV industry had been harassed by greedy lawyers and forced to enter into a consent decree to protect its interests. Nothing could have been further from the truth.
It became apparent that readers were more interested in taking pot shots at lawyers than discussing the most serious issue to ever face ATVing. The sad story reported by 3Cross was turned into a doomsayers' tirade against the legal profession. They were going to sue Polaris and recover millions of dollars! It didn't matter how frivolous the case was, some clever lawyer would hypnotize the jury and make himself rich! One reply said he knew an attorney in his town who would take the case. Another claimed that "ethical attorney" was an "oxymoron" (perhaps not the only moron in the thread!).
As 3Cross later reported, all of that was untrue. There was no lawsuit against Polaris. It was the irresponsible adults who were facing the wrath of the legal system.
How disappointing! A serious thread on an important issue had been turned into sandbox arguing. I deleted my posts. Then, I later returned with another approach. Tree Farmer said in another thread (Where to Ride: "Tasker's Gap/Deer Hunting/Second Amendment"), that I used a debate tactic known as "reductio ad absurdum," reducing opposing arguments to absudities. Perhaps, I did.
Maybe, now we can get back to what this topic is really about. That is children being injured on adult ATVs. Despite previous claims, the consent decree between the ATV industry and the federal government was not brought by greedy lawyers, nor did it make them any money. The government brought a lawsuit, because there was no agreement on how to address the same issue this thread is about. 400 children under the age of 16 had been killed and another 90,000 seriously injured while riding adult ATVs. All that occurred in just a 4 year period. The terms of the decree included: (i) the ATV industry agreed to put decals on their products, similar to the ones you see today on every machine sold by a dealer, and (ii) it agreed not to sell adult ATVs for use by children.
The consent decree has expired. You can bet that the issue of children being injured on adult ATVs will be revisited. It is not the federal government which is most concerned about the issue. There are other, private organizations which may initiate legal action themselves. Those include such "greedy" entities as "The American Academy of Pediatrics," which tried to intervene in the government's lawsuit over ten years ago.
As indicated in this forum, the issue is not resolved. If you read the thread, "When the cops..." you will see that children are still riding adult ATVs, and that they are doing so in a reckless and unlawful manner. I read a post in that thread this morning which recounted how a 15 year old killed himself yesterday while speeding to escape a highway patrolman. Unfortunately, before the sad message, there were a number of posts in the same thread from adults who condoned speeding to elude blue light and siren. A number of teens also posted messages which showed their immature views on the issue. If you simply look at Darby Carsh's thread "WHO ARE YOU," you will see that we have a number of children under the age of 16 riding adult ATVs. So, their safety is a concern for ALL of us.
We can have fun on the forum. There is a place for absurdity and humor. But, I hope we do not forget the issues which are important to our sport.
We can make a difference. The question is, "Will we?"
kclayd
[This message has been edited by kclayd (edited 12-05-1999).]
Instead, the thread turned into a diatribe against lawyers. It was a debate which was waged by hearsay stories and unresearched opinions. There were claims that the ATV industry had been harassed by greedy lawyers and forced to enter into a consent decree to protect its interests. Nothing could have been further from the truth.
It became apparent that readers were more interested in taking pot shots at lawyers than discussing the most serious issue to ever face ATVing. The sad story reported by 3Cross was turned into a doomsayers' tirade against the legal profession. They were going to sue Polaris and recover millions of dollars! It didn't matter how frivolous the case was, some clever lawyer would hypnotize the jury and make himself rich! One reply said he knew an attorney in his town who would take the case. Another claimed that "ethical attorney" was an "oxymoron" (perhaps not the only moron in the thread!).
As 3Cross later reported, all of that was untrue. There was no lawsuit against Polaris. It was the irresponsible adults who were facing the wrath of the legal system.
How disappointing! A serious thread on an important issue had been turned into sandbox arguing. I deleted my posts. Then, I later returned with another approach. Tree Farmer said in another thread (Where to Ride: "Tasker's Gap/Deer Hunting/Second Amendment"), that I used a debate tactic known as "reductio ad absurdum," reducing opposing arguments to absudities. Perhaps, I did.
Maybe, now we can get back to what this topic is really about. That is children being injured on adult ATVs. Despite previous claims, the consent decree between the ATV industry and the federal government was not brought by greedy lawyers, nor did it make them any money. The government brought a lawsuit, because there was no agreement on how to address the same issue this thread is about. 400 children under the age of 16 had been killed and another 90,000 seriously injured while riding adult ATVs. All that occurred in just a 4 year period. The terms of the decree included: (i) the ATV industry agreed to put decals on their products, similar to the ones you see today on every machine sold by a dealer, and (ii) it agreed not to sell adult ATVs for use by children.
The consent decree has expired. You can bet that the issue of children being injured on adult ATVs will be revisited. It is not the federal government which is most concerned about the issue. There are other, private organizations which may initiate legal action themselves. Those include such "greedy" entities as "The American Academy of Pediatrics," which tried to intervene in the government's lawsuit over ten years ago.
As indicated in this forum, the issue is not resolved. If you read the thread, "When the cops..." you will see that children are still riding adult ATVs, and that they are doing so in a reckless and unlawful manner. I read a post in that thread this morning which recounted how a 15 year old killed himself yesterday while speeding to escape a highway patrolman. Unfortunately, before the sad message, there were a number of posts in the same thread from adults who condoned speeding to elude blue light and siren. A number of teens also posted messages which showed their immature views on the issue. If you simply look at Darby Carsh's thread "WHO ARE YOU," you will see that we have a number of children under the age of 16 riding adult ATVs. So, their safety is a concern for ALL of us.
We can have fun on the forum. There is a place for absurdity and humor. But, I hope we do not forget the issues which are important to our sport.
We can make a difference. The question is, "Will we?"
kclayd
[This message has been edited by kclayd (edited 12-05-1999).]
#47
12-05-1999, 09:48 PM
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