cc per cc the 2-strokes win hands down as they do half the work to get the same output, but with the new technology 4-strokes are narrowing this gap and already surpass the 2 -stroke suspensions (technologically wise) even though for now similar types are available in the after market. The big diff is the overall better reliability of the 4 stroke, ease of maintenance, intervals for maintenance, longevity without rebuild, reverse on many modely. The claims of 700 cc to equal a 350 2 stroke are true, but look at the overall package in addition to the environmentally friendlier situation of the 4 stroke. and if you look at it pragmatically an equal comparison is a 350 banshee to a 700 4 stroke. which stock for stock my 650 has never lost to a banshee. I know "but who leaves their quad stock" right ? well I have raced banshees that have aftermarket pipes t-5's (what do they cost $500 ?" with my $45.00 end cap mod and I still win! So dollar for dollar the 4 stroke is still on top. and that is just overall power not to mention that the shee has the same suspension from 1987(i think that is the year they started) and I have almost 12 inches of travel all around. Add in that expense and I still outrun the shee after $1500 in suspension upgrade and his $450 more in exhaust. so the shee rider pays an extra $1950 to still lose to my almost stock 650 just to ride the 2 stroke ? that doesn't make much sense to me. And I used the shee as an example cause it is going to be the new 250r in that it will be around for years to come like the 250's are now. And this scenario is before even more advances in the 4 stroke industry which I guarantee will materialize in the near future. Unless the manufacturers re-invest tons of money to refine and update the 2 stroke (possible but in my opinion not likely) they are scheduled (in the grand scheme of things) slated for extinction whereas the 4 stroke promises to achieve new heights in performance. Talk all you want about a guy you know or heard of that has that awesomw shee or 250r that has $15 grand invested that smokes all 4 strokes out there since he has to use $20 grand to achieve this status when with equal monein upgrades the 4 stroke would still win. How many of you have raced the DS650's with nitros or the turbo running alcohol and the 730 kits ?I still put my money on the 4 strokes.

 

cain, although your response is in good faith, you have no idea what you are talking about. From the post you just put up i can tell you've never gotten outside your living room to see what a real drag race is. Your alk 730-800cc DS's on nitrous and STILL dont put out the horsepower of a alcohol 350 banshee. You talk about how the 2-stroke needs suspension, who needs suspension in a drag race? I love how you talk about how worthy you are that you beat a banshee with T5's though...WOW. I know your in florida and there arent really any drag racing events over there, but try to open up a little and be a little less ignorant. Your end capped DS doesnt stand a chance, even agaist fellow 4-strokes.

12 inches of travel? wow, how much faster does that make you go in a straight line? That 1500 dollar suspension upgrade on the banshee, what is that good for? half a second in the 100? Ignorance must be bliss

 

speaking of opening up a mind..... as is evident in my post I was referring to many aspect in which the four strokes are better not just in a drag, however where do you get the misinfo that my ds doesn't stand a chance against a shee or other 4 strokes ? you are the one that obviously know little or nothing. I don't bother posting replies claiming to be the fasted or the best, but the claims the I do post are from my experiences. Like it or not I have whipped 2 piped banshees and several stock ones. And so far haven't been beaten by many 4 strokes including the 450r Honda that I raced (his was stock and so was mine). as far as 4 vs 2 I am posting my educated opinion, as far as me beating the shees, and the 450 that is fact. Like I said I am well aware of many quads that would waste my near stock one and don't really care, my responses here are rhetorical in nature in the 2 vs 4 stroke controversy not to convince anyone that I have the fastest quad on earth. And welcome any near stock 2 stroke to go against my basically stock 4 stroke DS. I am confident I will win, but if I didn't I would have no prob reporting the news here. And ignorant lets not resort to name calling remember the saying those in glass houses ? any way you exemplify the 2 stroke arguement and how it is irrelevant. Just because you invested tons into a shee to make it super fast doesn't mean a thing. Lets compare apples to apples like I have done time and time again. As far as suspension I was referring to the overall characteristics of the stock 4 strokes over the outdated 2 strokes. And no I don't drag much as I prefer to ride a variety of terrain and jump as much as I can (yes suspension matter there). I enjoy all alect of my quad and prefer no to sink my money into something that (although it may do it well) can only do one thing. You know that has Freudian implications..... are you tring to compensate for something? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

"How many of you have raced the DS650's with nitros or the turbo running alcohol and the 730 kits ?I still put my money on the 4 strokes."

i replied to this portion of your post in general, and your suspension comment. Compensating for something now? Touchy arent we...

Furthermore you're post was in regards to drag racing, how you've never been beaten by a stock vs. stock machine. YOUR STILL TALKING ABOUT DRAG RACING. While i dont fault you for this, your post is aimed at straight line racing.

In the response to the 2-stroke suspension. OF COURSE the 4-strokes will have better suspension, being that factory riders are only allowed on the 4-strokes wouldnt that make sense to you? But for 1500 you could get twice the suspension a stock 4-stroke has. Lets not inflate our numbers now.

I do drag race and i do have a lot of money in it. I also have trail bikes and near stock machines. Drag racing isnt all i do.

 

apparently drag racing is not all you do .... you also run your mouth alot. Yes the "never been beaten stock vs stock" was mostly in regards to drag racing but not entirely. I also raced 2 banshees on 2 different small tracks and won. The other comments were in regards to the overall supremacy of the stock equipment on the 4 stroke machines. And no I'm not touchy I simply thought it was funny [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]. Now let me elaborate to quiet you down.
4 strokes:
are more technologically updates (duh)
Have better sespensions
at least equal power (when comparing apples to apples)
better comfort
more convienence (maintenance, reverse, etc)
better handling
and overall better (stock vs stock) than the 2 stroke quads as they are more versitile, offer comparable power, usually better torque, nicer ride, better reliability,and longevity.
Now you can attempt to distort anything you wish to try to argue your (in vain) point, but I believe my point and opinion is as clear as it can be.

 

nothing to argue, i just needed to shut you up since you were obviously wrong in your post towards me. Glad you agree. I see nothing wrong with your last post as much of it is true. I do run my mouth, but it is to shut up people who think their 4-strokes are all holy. Your 4-strokes are nice, and if the factories accepted the 2-strokes for factory sponsorships they would still be equally as great in the suspension market as your 4-strokes. Believe me on that. If they let anytime racers have a 200cc advantage over a 2-stroke in the racing world they will naturally gain more exposure. Its the nature of the beast. And please dont perceive me as a loud mouth who knows nothing about quads. But i as well as many others get sick of hearing about how fast 4-strokes are in drag racing when compared to a 2-stroke.

Only thing though "at least equal power (when comparing apples to apples)" what do you consider apples to apples? 450cc dual overhead cam 4-stroke motors to a 15 year old 2-stroke motor? I dont honestly think you can compare an apple to an apple when comparing a 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke

But to be honest with you cain, i started out in the world with a 01 ds 650 2 years ago. Put a woods 2 kit on it and 3 hours after the kit was on the crank went out on it. Reason why is because the factory didnt shim the crank to the case correctly and it wobbled itself out of the case. Factory problem! 2500 later the bike was fixed and sold. So 4-strokes arent any cheaper to maintain, dont last longer, and are just as prone to problems as any other bike on the market. Just how the cookie crumbles sometimes

 

lets see... a good all around quad should have a 72 inch wheelbase, 48 inches wide, seat height of 31 inches or less, at least 12 inches of wheel travel, weighs 350 lbs and have a minimum 11:1 compression 45 horsepower stock motor. Now the closest quad would be a stock Yfz450 w/c cost close to 7 grand. Now if you could get a new banshee for 5800 and spend 1200 to upgrade suspension, intake and exhaust... u might come close. Now it seems like the Yfz is at the moment, the perfect blend of 4 stroke technology combined with 2 stroke power. Obviously, 15 year old 2 stroke bikes need to be piped and suspended well to compete with 4 stroke bikes that have to be bored out, piped and also suspended well in an even playing field. NOW the type of riding experience with ones matching skill level will determine which bike you would think better. Given less comfort and conveniences, it takes more skill to ride a 2 stroke than a 4 although that only raises the so-called fun factor. Also given more technology involved in a 4 stroke motor with its more moving parts converts to higher cost if breakage occurs. I believe we all should judge a ride for the amount of fun it gives for at the end of the day, that is the only thing that counts. My 02 cents.

 

No, it WON'T catch up. The 2-stroke inherently produces more power by it's design. Companies like Rotax, Polaris, Suzuki (Arctic Cat motors), OMC, Mercury Marine, etc, etc would not be investing millions in new 2-stroke technology just to let it die. Yamaha is pushing 4-strokes hard in the sled world. I applaud them for offering an alternative for those who want it. Diversity makes any sport better. However, their kick-*** 5 valve 1000cc sled still has to run in the 600 class at drags because that's all it can keep up with. I don't give a rat's *** if 2-strokes make a comeback in atvs or not because that will be driven by marketing, not science. There is nothing you can do to a 4-stroke that there isn't an answer for with a 2-stroke to keep it ahead as it has always been. You can spend a ton of money building the crap out of a thumper, and I can get a wrecked Polaris sled with a 500 Liberty twin power valve motor and throw it in a Sport or Scrambler frame and have 90 some reliable, stock horsepower in a lighweight, compact, inexpensive package.

 

Well said atvbandit. after all isn't that what it's all about ? I just hate to see uninformed individuals bashing the up and coming 4 strokes.
I also have to add to the list of fallen prey to my DS. I raced an 03 400 EX with LTE dual exhaust (and jetted) and even gave him a head start and wasted him in about 150 yard drag. In the same distance I left an 04 Honda 450r with the hop up kit. it's amazing what $47.50 worth of mods can do to a DS.

 

I have 4200.00 in go fast mods on my DS I use it for desert racing. It puts out about 80hp
That’s a lot of bang for the buck and It starts with the push of a button every time. I have had 2 strokes in the past. Always redoing the top end, fouling plugs, mixing gas, ex. I have a lot more fun and go a lot faster than I ever did on my 2 stroke with the same amount of money. Just my two cents worth.