LOL, if I thought it had the slightest bit of significance in the discussion I would comment on it. It doesn't, so I won't!!

 

It is quite relevant. It is yet another reason why GM struggles, poor manufacturing efficiencies. This results in weaker profits (or greater losses in GM's case), which results in fewer jobs for American workers.

It isn't as simple as "buy American". There are far more factors. But, in an effort to win your argument, you refuse to look at the other many issues affecting the loss of manufacturing jobs.

 

I guess we all have different views of what has and is happening, but what really puzzles me is where are some getting their opinions or info from.

Most every country we export to has a higher tarriff and many have such a high rate that it makes imports into their country very expensive and many times impossible.

The US has issued only a mere few special tariffs on specific products from specific countries that were found to have been actually selling to the US at lower than normal prices (sometimes at a loss) just to penetrate our markets and steal sales from our domestic manufacturers. These special fees are called dumping duties, but they have only been used on a very limited basis (so much so that I bet few have heard of them) and for industries that were completely falling apart for the american companies.

If memory serves me correctly it was around the same time that most of the up to date american bearing manufacturing companies were either out of business or in serious trouble that the US Dept of Defense realized that they could not continue to keep our military moving (even the most hi tech nuclear subs were involved) without relying on a foreign bearing company. Somehow the DOD got the ball moving so that there was at least some protection to the domestic manufacturers that they relied on for their replacement parts.

Point is that even if you refuse to see whats plain and obvious in front of you, there has to be an understanding to some point that we need to be more than a paper pushing economy. With some of the thinking I have seen here we would be in even deeper crap than we are now. Its tough enough economically to deal with the results of many years of pressures from less expensive imports from countries with a lower living standard and cost of living etc, but when it gets to the point that we dont have the domestic ability to produce the products that protect our safety and keep our military moving its a real problem.

And if that doesnt get your attention then consider that pretty much everything mechanical we use on a daily basis from your printer to your car and even your quad requires bearings to run, and then think about how almost all the us bearing companies were allowed to either fail or be purchased by foreign companies due to having to compete on a totally uneven playing field (sorry but we need to pay americans more than a eastern euro or asian country) that if there was a nationl security issue from an unforseen enemy we dont have enough us owned plants to keep up with replacement parts, and forget about new production.

So cars are imortant, but lets not forget all the various industrial concerns that have been allowed to fall to inexpensive foreign labor.

And if you enjoy screwing yourself that much (even when they told you it would make you blind) I guess you really cant see whats happening [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Good point.

Ditto that to anyone in this thread.

I think these more "emotional" subjects are part of what makes a forum great, and it this seeing or reading of different opinion that allows us all to learn, and even if its not what we believe we still learn what others believe.

Actually cant see a damn bad thing that may come from it, and from what I am gathering so far from whats been posted there may be a real need for a "hard knocks" course in economics on a atv forum since apparantly the professional educators seem to have an agenda to create a certain mind set for the future or whats coming next [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

BryceGTX,

I'm with you on this. It's a matter of GAINING manufacturing jobs back by buying back American. So many have bailed on this country so easy it's sad. Look no further than when they bailed during the oil embargo - disgust. Ripped the heart out of this country.

We have bought Chinese too. We know that if we buy too much from them we are only hurting the American worker and supporting the Chinese war machine and form of govt.. We know that if we buy too much Japanese, we support the selling of our soil and family wage jobs and their security. We know to keep America strong, and too keep America soil American, we need to buy American (from wood to shoes to apples and A to Z).

We know to "buy American" is not as complicated or as poor a choice as some might have us believe. We are smart shoppers too.

 

I can't disagree with you on much of what you said. Our government, under numerous administrations, has been horrible when it comes to keeping the playing field level. That said, we wouldn't be able to go after every country at once. But, we really need to put pressure on these other countries to open their markets to us. I don't think that many of us here will disagree.

On the possitive side, we still have a lot of strength in many industries. Hopefully, we will expand upon that. Hopefully with gas prices as high as they are, congress will pass an energy bill that allows American companies to explore, drill, and refine (more refineries) domestic oil. Afterall, this is a big part of our trade deficit and a much bigger part of our national security.

 

440...We must be posting at the same time. Amen on that comment brother. Add Sociology to Economics in that train of thought. It makes it very difficult to learn reality in a classroom setting, even on the highschool level. We have to "correct" some of the learning our 15 year old brings home.

 

It has no bearing on the discussion because all new plants or modifications to plants always implement the most modern techniques of production and machinery. Since all of this machinery come from a hand full of companies, this machinery appears on the production floor of all companies. This all comes about because all of these companies all go to the same trade shows, they all communicate their techniques across the board. Everyone knows what everyone else is doing and they all will gravitate to the production techniques that work the best. Anyone even remotely aware of how the auto industry work knows this. So this discussion is a mute point. It just seems to be another off base argument to deflect from the most basic point that it is always better to buy from and American company.

 

No, you don't get it or you would have such off-base comments about it and the problems GM is having. Lean manufacturing has little to do with the machinery itself, but in a SIMPLE kind of view, how it is used. If the work force does not embrace lean manufacturing principles, it is likely they will fail. It is their only chance, yet you suggest we become more like France with their failed protectionists policies (which lead to the downfall of thier nationalized industry). We've had our own issues with a union (and management too) fighting change every chance it got. GM put themselves in the position they are in, not anyone else. We could all cry why we lost our jobs, or find a way to play and win the game they way it is now. It sounds to me that they have finally realized this and are starting to act.

We have 50 year old jig bores working just fine to lean manufacturing principals. The company I work for is doing great financially. We are a very old company that is in-tune to Kaizen, ACE, Six Sigma, lean manufacturing if you wish. 60% of our revenue comes from overseas. Our revenues have been growing at 15% per year as long as we've been aware. We also outsource the majority of our manufacturing. It works and we are tough to beat in our field. We are pretty much a monopoly in the product I specialize in. GE is another example of a company that has survived by employing these principles. We'd be in the same shape as GM if we just cried because of tariffs. GM is not effectively incorporating sound techniques and is suffering, so are many of their employees and customers. Don't blame it on unfair tariffs alone, I do agree more has to be done to level the playing field, but that is small potatoes, they have bigger issues.

Why do you think Ford uses a Japanese transmission in thier new 60% NAFTA Ford 500? Because they haven't figured out how to reduce variation enough to produce a reliable automatic transmission. And don't tell me no, because it is a case study for lean manufacturing training.

Everyone even close to the industry, except you I guess, knows China is the ticket. Thier auto market increased 80% last year. In a decade, they will be a bigger car market than the US. China made a decision not manufacture their own cars and invited car manufacturers to come over and set up shop. Jeep (American Motors) was the first. GM knows this is where its at now (if they can turn it around here and not lose any more market share), you don't. They do know the first one to be effective with an alternate fuel vehicle will be the king of the automotive world.

Sorry, but you are just wrong, there are very little US only products, and it is not ALWAYS better to buy from an American company.

Go ahead, get in the last word (I know you think that means you won the argument).......

 

You know what is sad?

I bet more people can agree with this than any other point being made here.

Guess we have to really think what is behind the cause of this, and what the plans may be for the future when you consider what our children are being told.