The original title of the post:

"Why buy American"

To me it's real simple.

Because it's better for our country and it's a patriotic thing to do. That matters to me.

 

Apparently Michigan really is srtuggling.

Facts:

Unemployment at 5.1% is less than the average in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.
Job growth 3.5+ million new jobs since the peak loss after the recession.
Mean income is up and growing at a rate of 3.9%
US productivity is at record highs (important because it relates to quality of life)

You must be kidding about the country only staying in business because of low interest rates [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

"BIG BUSINESS" Must survive to keep people employed. Of course they send, what should be, lower paying jobs over seas in order to grow, keep better high tech jobs here, and be part of the global economy.

It amazes me that people think something so simple as "buy American" can fix everything. It goes to show peoples inability to look past their very limited experience to the broader picture, long term benefits, and huge markets that await us.

As to small business taking on more burden...I didn't say that. I said that small business IS the backbone of America. We employ far more people than "big business". These are facts that can't be argued. But, then, you said you weren't going to argue with me anyway.

So, yes, I am hard headed I guess. But, it takes hard headed people to argue with me.

 

05PRED500

I'm glad things are going so well for you. I would like to share a few personal facts with you.

I am a professional tradesman (a trim carpenter) making more per hour than 80% of my fellow carpenters.

Fact: In 1990 I earned aprox $10,000 more than the median income of my state. In 2004 I earned more than $20,000 less than the median income of my state.

Fact: In 1990 my property tax was $480 a year. In 2004 my property tax was $2500 a year. (same house)

Fact In 1990 I payed $10,000 for a work truck. In 2002 I payed $26,000 for a very plain jane work truck.

The real fact is the middle class as I knew it is gone. People are either getting wealthy (you?) Or they are getting poorer (me).

I am not lazy. I am motivated and enjoy what I do, and am very good at it.

If I can buy something made in the USA that will keep another slob like me working for another day I will.

 

You know what i think about all this,,,,,

You guys type to dame much,,,,, if i had all the time you guys have to type i could have my predator done and my pro street truck done[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]

Or maybe i just type to slow.............


Just my 2 cents

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

TR

 

This thread has been full of laughs, but most of them in a cynical or sarcastic way or tone etc. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Those exact numbers may not be totally accurate (then again I doubt the ones reported arent either) but when you consider that the strong push for continued education etc is only another one of the many replacements for the mfg jobs I keep talking about it gets more interesting.

Think about how many more students are continuing their education not only beyond high school, but also beyone the normal 2 or 4 year degree? Then consider how employers are looking at a normal associates or bachelors degree as they did a high school diploma only 10-20 years ago.

The thing behind it all is just creating jobs, and since the recent grads of higher education that would have normally moved into the job market with a high school education in the past are not different or actually being looked at or treated different by employers it appears very obvious to me that a 2 or 4 year degree has been turned into a high school diploma of the past in the name of increasing an entire industry.

I have seen it personally many times, and am actually starting to get used to highly educated people with little ability to perform better than those less educated, but with a strong desire to be paid more regardless of performance due to their time served etc.

And to top it all off I have been helping a family member with some reports and various other related papers recently (a re entry to this after some time off for them ) and what I found only further proved my theory above.

Actually to be honest I think I have produced seriously superior works on the forums like this, and all those that were graded etc were well received. Point is if you can prove your still breathing and able to complete basic requests or tasks your money and your grades will be very supportive.

And dont forget the bene's for state type jobs like that continue well past death, and were all paying for it from the taxes on our reduced incomes from the results of too many imports!!!

 

I was going to let this one alone, but then remembered that Bryce was out of town, and figure what the he!! someone has to answer this (again lol)

In so specific order.

Paying what any small business owner feels to be a good amount or paying his people well doesnt mean their being well compensated. Not to talk in a circle but depending on the location, income experiences of the owner, needs and expectations of the worker that can mean so many different things its almost crazy to debate because its a perception or opinion, and really nothing more.

Even just to compare annual salary type compensation and benefit values with no concern for the varied costs of living within the country its still hard to fairly debate what is well compenstated. Some people may think that since their business generates X amount of profits and is spending Z percentage of that on labor costs that they are paying very well, and others may compare to similar positions, but in the end your shrinking profit margins and increasing taxes and costs doing business have nothing to do with this, and average local scale doesnt either.

What really defines a well compensated employee is when you compare the costs of living to the total income and benefits, and if that doesnt relate to being able to provide a superior quality of life for ones family and ones self into retirement then I wouldnt consider myself "well compensated" but rather getting by.

Employment rates, new unemployment numbers and much of the other similar stats dont really mean all that much to me (well except for chosing trading points on stocks etc) since there prone to be misleading and dont show the long or short term effects of having such a large trade defict as we have for so long.

Jobs are created every day, and as I have shown previous entire industries have been created or enhanced to provide employment opportunity, but no matter how you may justify this to yourself there has been a serious loss to the average american worker (especially blue collar mfg etc) from these replacement industries and jobs for the sake of increasing profits and income for a very small few of the wealthiest americans. REduced wages, loss of benefits, sharing the cost of medical coverage, little or no 100% company paid pension, smaller work force, increased work load, and a host of other things are the results, and I cant compare fairly the amount of people employed in these new positions today to those 20-40 years ago employed in jobs many can only wish for today.

Dont misunderstand me as I know people who are compensated over 55K a year to wash cars with full bene's and a pension, but they work for the state in one of many capacities, and are in a state with one of the highest costs of living in the country. The bene's are great no matter how you stack it, but the pay level still requires that the spouse works if you dont want to lose your home to unpaid taxes (typically $7000 and up unless you find the niches) and unless you add an extra 20 hours to your work week for commuting its typically for a area with a lower quality of life than most enjoy in other areas.

The stats only tell a miniscule part of the story, and that why they have lost their meaning or value.

I dont know what anyones job or business is here, and can only speculate from what has been posted etc, but unless your part of the top 5% of the wealthiest americans I am sure you have seen if not felt the pressures from the decreased sales and or profit margins seen by the overwhelming majority of american companies and workers from increased pressures from the cheap overseas labor of the ever increasing imported products hitting our shores.

This effects everyone, and it seems logical that those who own large amounts of the various companies that have been participating in giving up on america and investing in operations in various foreign countries with extremely lower labor and all other costs are the only ones benefiting from this, and on a unbelievable scale as well.

Sure you can still find a great position with one of the remaining large corps that are able to maintain healthy margins and continue to be profitable, or even with working with some part of the govt, but even with the increase in govt employees there are still no ware as many of these good positions opening up as there are people losing or that have lost a similar "well compensated" position in private industry.

So as we all continue to be squeezed and fight for our place in all of this etc. there are those who are now laughing all the way to the bank as we buy these cheap imports as there all that can be afforded on the reduced compensation were forced to deal with, and even though they may save the consumer 50 or even 75% of the cost of a domestic mfg product those who are laughing just saved a few thousand % by moving their MFG off shore and are now enjoying a profit level they had never dreamed of.

Dont believe that, then just consider the swing arm needle bearing kit you paid $20 for that hit our shores under a cost of $1 from china, or those ball bearings for your front wheels that you paid $40 (for the set) and were under $8 and you may better understand. If that doesnt do it then dont forget that its a whole lot less expensive to do business where $2 is a good weekly wage, and a lot more profitable to import the products made by that worker into a country where $1000 is a good weekly wage.

And lastly to prove this another way all we need to do is look at how as imports have grown out of controll so has the national debt, and the debt of almost every state as they scramble for ways to make this all work somehow without disturbing that 5% of americans who they (most all party related politicians) ultimately have to answer to.

 

440EX026,

Right on! Anymore, Higher Ed. is just greasing more govt. palms while guiding America down a path that few wish (need) to travel - but the many have to pay for. At one time in days gone by it was the right thing to do. These days it just doesn't fit the same.

Being we don't have the jobs (skills mix), it's all they (govt.) can push. No surprise employers requre the sheeps skin. What a shame.

 

440EX026,

Exactly what I was thinking only couldn't articulate. Thank you.

 

Things didn't always go well for me. Actually, I was nearly destroyed financially right after 9/11. Right about that time, my company was the victim of fraud to the tune of 25k and then one of my locations was broken into and I lost another 5k in equipment (useless to the idiot that stole it).

You brought up several different issues, some that really tick me off. I'll start with property tax. This is an example of governments taking advantage of their citizens. Where in Indiana is Clown Point? I am not normally surprised with numbers like that. But, it sucks that it has increased that much. Part of the reason, though, is that your house has probably trippled (or more) in value.

I certainly don't doubt that you are a hard worker. I did part of the trim in my basement (finished 1850 square feet) and realized that it would take me a very long time to finish it all. I hired trim guys and a crew of 4 knocked it out in 4 days. I am a contractor because of my home theater business and I still paid a considerable amount to have the work completed. They did a great job, BTW. My point is, I guess it depends on your market as too the income. Do you own the business or have you been working for other companies the entire time?

The median family (family of 4) income in Indiana in 1990 was $39,700.00 and in 2003 was $65,009.00 according to the US Census. Unless there is virtually no construction or remodeling in your area, how does your income go down that much? Kentucky's median income is less than Indiana's yet, try finding a construction crew to do anything including trim work here. If you lived here, I could get you more work then you could handle!!

Now, I have a huge problem with illegal immigration and business owners paying them under the table. That has a much greater impact on your income than "buy American".

I do agree, the middle class, if not gone as you know it, is getting much smaller. That IS NOT because people are falling in classes. It is because people are moving up in class.

My argument to the title of this thread "Why buy American" is that when you buy American, you are usually not buying American and it WILL NOT neccessarily keep jobs here. A global market gives us more better paying jobs than it takes. At the same time, it does take more manufacturing jobs away.

 

Excellent read supporting my theories

In case you want to read a study that is not based on propaganda.