Predator, Cannondale, Z400, Raptor shootout
#31
01-26-2003 | 05:45 PM
Pro Rider
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,075
Likes: 0
Predator, Cannondale, Z400, Raptor shootout
My 2 cents.
Personally, I think they did a pretty good job of presenting the Predator as an honest contender to the Championship.
You have to remember that these Shootouts are for INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES, not an opportunity to root for your team. The little things like the tank plastic being potentially uncomfortable to some riders is just the kind of information that is important to someone that is concidering purchasing one and there for it is a MUST that it be included in the artical. There is NO DOUBT that the PRO steering system is a much improved design over what everyone else is using. However, this design Does incorporate more working parts and therefor MAY require more attention to keep in proper working order. Or it may work flawless for the life of the Quad. Who Knows?
I guess I just don't see all of the Conspiracies that everyone else sees. The Addvertizing Dollars excuse just doesn't hold water. There is NO Quid-Pro-Quoe involved here. ALL of the manufacturers have the same opportunity to addvertize. The Magazines make there money off of selling adds, and in turn selling the Magazine. If the Magazine doesn't sell then the Addvertizers will look else where. Polaris has purchased some of the most Expensive adds for the Predator money can buy and the Mags are not going to shoot themselves in the A** and give up all that money with false accusations and lies.
I have not been on this Forum for that long. But you don't have to be here very long to realize that these Shootouts are controversial and NO ONE BUT THE WINNER OF ANY SHOOTOUT WILL EVER BE HAPPY WITH THE OUTCOME!!!
I posted a Thread titled "A SHOOTOUT TO SATISFY THE MASSES". One of the sugestions that seemed to garner some support was to test each of the Quads and give a review of the good and the bad aspects of said Quad. In my oppinion, it looks like someone at Dirtwheels was listening.
I read this Shootout, and when I finished, I thought, "This is about as Politically Correct of an artical as I have ever seen in any of the Mags." They pretty much Praised each of the Quads in one way or another. Yet here we are still not happy.
There is NO SUCH THING as a Shootout to Satisfy the MASSES. It's like looking for Big Foot, the Loch Ness Monster or an Honest Politician. it just doesn't exist.
Predator owners, you have a Top Notch Quad to be proud of. Is it the Best Quad for everyone? I think you know the answer to that but for those who are unsure, the answer is No. There Never will be the "ONE QUAD FITS ALL Machine" and you should be thankful. If it weren't for all of the other Contenders to the Crown, your Predator wouldn't exist. Hats off to Polaris for stepping up to the plate.
Personally, I think they did a pretty good job of presenting the Predator as an honest contender to the Championship.
You have to remember that these Shootouts are for INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES, not an opportunity to root for your team. The little things like the tank plastic being potentially uncomfortable to some riders is just the kind of information that is important to someone that is concidering purchasing one and there for it is a MUST that it be included in the artical. There is NO DOUBT that the PRO steering system is a much improved design over what everyone else is using. However, this design Does incorporate more working parts and therefor MAY require more attention to keep in proper working order. Or it may work flawless for the life of the Quad. Who Knows?
I guess I just don't see all of the Conspiracies that everyone else sees. The Addvertizing Dollars excuse just doesn't hold water. There is NO Quid-Pro-Quoe involved here. ALL of the manufacturers have the same opportunity to addvertize. The Magazines make there money off of selling adds, and in turn selling the Magazine. If the Magazine doesn't sell then the Addvertizers will look else where. Polaris has purchased some of the most Expensive adds for the Predator money can buy and the Mags are not going to shoot themselves in the A** and give up all that money with false accusations and lies.
I have not been on this Forum for that long. But you don't have to be here very long to realize that these Shootouts are controversial and NO ONE BUT THE WINNER OF ANY SHOOTOUT WILL EVER BE HAPPY WITH THE OUTCOME!!!
I posted a Thread titled "A SHOOTOUT TO SATISFY THE MASSES". One of the sugestions that seemed to garner some support was to test each of the Quads and give a review of the good and the bad aspects of said Quad. In my oppinion, it looks like someone at Dirtwheels was listening.
I read this Shootout, and when I finished, I thought, "This is about as Politically Correct of an artical as I have ever seen in any of the Mags." They pretty much Praised each of the Quads in one way or another. Yet here we are still not happy.
There is NO SUCH THING as a Shootout to Satisfy the MASSES. It's like looking for Big Foot, the Loch Ness Monster or an Honest Politician. it just doesn't exist.
Predator owners, you have a Top Notch Quad to be proud of. Is it the Best Quad for everyone? I think you know the answer to that but for those who are unsure, the answer is No. There Never will be the "ONE QUAD FITS ALL Machine" and you should be thankful. If it weren't for all of the other Contenders to the Crown, your Predator wouldn't exist. Hats off to Polaris for stepping up to the plate.
#32
01-27-2003 | 03:34 AM
Pro Rider
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 1,216
Likes: 0
Predator, Cannondale, Z400, Raptor shootout
RPM,
I'll buy that one quad isn't for everyone, but the Hi Torque magazines are increadibly biased. Whether it has to do with advertizing dollars or the newest machine, it may all come down to brand loyalty, no one will ever know but them. What I do know is that if a high performance quad wins every catagory (or most catagories) in their shoot out it should win, no matter who makes it. But that isn't how it always happens. In fact it rarely happens that way at Hi Torque. Sometimes they'll pick the quad with the lowest price or one that has reverse or one that has the best fit and finish etc. High performance quads should be judged by their performance, not whether they have reverse (I have yet to see ANYBODY racing in reverse). Hey, the top professional rider's machines don't generally have reverse and these guys spend upwards of $15,000 on them. Does that make the Z-400 better than them? No, but they would have you believe that it was.
ATV Sport is one of the most unbaised magazines out there. Now granted they sometimes pull bone headed stunts like putting a Scrambler 500 in a high performance shoot out, but for the most part they are pretty fair. I would wait until the latest issue comes out. They will give the definitive answer on who is the best at what without being unbiased. I will live with the results. Even if they award the judgement to Suzuki/Kawasaki.
I'll buy that one quad isn't for everyone, but the Hi Torque magazines are increadibly biased. Whether it has to do with advertizing dollars or the newest machine, it may all come down to brand loyalty, no one will ever know but them. What I do know is that if a high performance quad wins every catagory (or most catagories) in their shoot out it should win, no matter who makes it. But that isn't how it always happens. In fact it rarely happens that way at Hi Torque. Sometimes they'll pick the quad with the lowest price or one that has reverse or one that has the best fit and finish etc. High performance quads should be judged by their performance, not whether they have reverse (I have yet to see ANYBODY racing in reverse). Hey, the top professional rider's machines don't generally have reverse and these guys spend upwards of $15,000 on them. Does that make the Z-400 better than them? No, but they would have you believe that it was.
ATV Sport is one of the most unbaised magazines out there. Now granted they sometimes pull bone headed stunts like putting a Scrambler 500 in a high performance shoot out, but for the most part they are pretty fair. I would wait until the latest issue comes out. They will give the definitive answer on who is the best at what without being unbiased. I will live with the results. Even if they award the judgement to Suzuki/Kawasaki.
#34
01-27-2003 | 05:57 AM
Trailblazer
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
#36
01-27-2003 | 06:34 AM
Trailblazer
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
Predator, Cannondale, Z400, Raptor shootout
Stole this from somewhere.....
SPORT QUAD power-TO-WEIGHT ratios… Highest to Lowest
(approximate stock rear wheel horsepower / factory claimed dry weight)
1. Suzuki Quadzilla LT500 ---------> 51srwhp / 390lbs = 0.1308 horsepower per pound
2. Polaris Predator 500---------------> 45srwhp / 415lbs = 0.1084 horsepower per pound
3. Cannondale Cannibal -------------> 38srwhp / 375lbs = 0.1013 horsepower per pound
4. Yamaha Banshee ------------------> 37srwhp / 386lbs = 0.0959 horsepower per pound
5. Suzuki QuadRacer 250R --------> 31srwhp / 327lbs = 0.0948 horsepower per pound
6. Kawasaki Tecate 4 ----------------> 33srwhp / 339lbs = 0.0944 horsepower per pound
7. Honda 250R --------------------------> 31srwhp / 329lbs = 0.0942 horsepower per pound
8. Bombardier DS650 ----------------> 42srwhp / 465lbs = 0.0903 horsepower per pound
9. Yamaha Raptor 660R -------------> 35srwhp / 399lbs = 0.0877 horsepower per pound
10. Suzuki Z400 / Kawasaki X400 -> 32srwhp / 370lbs = 0.0865 horsepower per pound
11. Honda 400EX -----------------------> 29srwhp / 374lbs = 0.0775 horsepower per pound
12. Polaris Sport 400 ------------------> 31srwhp / 481lbs = 0.0644 horsepower per pound
13. Yamaha Blaster --------------------> 19srwhp / 320lbs = 0.0594 horsepower per pound
14. Yamaha Warrior -------------------> 22srwhp / 397lbs = 0.0554 horsepower per pound
15. Polaris Scrambler 500 2WD ---> 29srwhp / 525lbs = 0.0552 horsepower per pound
16. Honda 300EX -----------------------> 17srwhp / 377lbs = 0.0451 horsepower per pound
17. Kawasaki Mojave -----------------> 17srwhp / 379lbs = 0.0449 horsepower per pound
18. Honda 250X -------------------------> 15srwhp / 351lbs = 0.0427 horsepower per pound
19. Honda 250EX -----------------------> 13srwhp / 349lbs = 0.0372 horsepower per pound
20. Suzuki QuadSport 230 ----------> 11srwhp / 309lbs = 0.0356 horsepower per pound
SPORT QUAD power-TO-WEIGHT ratios… Highest to Lowest
(approximate stock rear wheel horsepower / factory claimed dry weight)
1. Suzuki Quadzilla LT500 ---------> 51srwhp / 390lbs = 0.1308 horsepower per pound
2. Polaris Predator 500---------------> 45srwhp / 415lbs = 0.1084 horsepower per pound
3. Cannondale Cannibal -------------> 38srwhp / 375lbs = 0.1013 horsepower per pound
4. Yamaha Banshee ------------------> 37srwhp / 386lbs = 0.0959 horsepower per pound
5. Suzuki QuadRacer 250R --------> 31srwhp / 327lbs = 0.0948 horsepower per pound
6. Kawasaki Tecate 4 ----------------> 33srwhp / 339lbs = 0.0944 horsepower per pound
7. Honda 250R --------------------------> 31srwhp / 329lbs = 0.0942 horsepower per pound
8. Bombardier DS650 ----------------> 42srwhp / 465lbs = 0.0903 horsepower per pound
9. Yamaha Raptor 660R -------------> 35srwhp / 399lbs = 0.0877 horsepower per pound
10. Suzuki Z400 / Kawasaki X400 -> 32srwhp / 370lbs = 0.0865 horsepower per pound
11. Honda 400EX -----------------------> 29srwhp / 374lbs = 0.0775 horsepower per pound
12. Polaris Sport 400 ------------------> 31srwhp / 481lbs = 0.0644 horsepower per pound
13. Yamaha Blaster --------------------> 19srwhp / 320lbs = 0.0594 horsepower per pound
14. Yamaha Warrior -------------------> 22srwhp / 397lbs = 0.0554 horsepower per pound
15. Polaris Scrambler 500 2WD ---> 29srwhp / 525lbs = 0.0552 horsepower per pound
16. Honda 300EX -----------------------> 17srwhp / 377lbs = 0.0451 horsepower per pound
17. Kawasaki Mojave -----------------> 17srwhp / 379lbs = 0.0449 horsepower per pound
18. Honda 250X -------------------------> 15srwhp / 351lbs = 0.0427 horsepower per pound
19. Honda 250EX -----------------------> 13srwhp / 349lbs = 0.0372 horsepower per pound
20. Suzuki QuadSport 230 ----------> 11srwhp / 309lbs = 0.0356 horsepower per pound
#37
01-27-2003 | 05:25 PM
Pro Rider
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,075
Likes: 0
Predator, Cannondale, Z400, Raptor shootout
Originally posted by: Mike Chero
RPM,
What I do know is that if a high performance quad wins every catagory (or most catagories) in their shoot out it should win, no matter who makes it. But that isn't how it always happens. In fact it rarely happens that way at Hi Torque. Sometimes they'll pick the quad with the lowest price or one that has reverse or one that has the best fit and finish etc. High performance quads should be judged by their performance, not whether they have reverse (I have yet to see ANYBODY racing in reverse). Hey, the top professional rider's machines don't generally have reverse and these guys spend upwards of $15,000 on them. Does that make the Z-400 better than them? No, but they would have you believe that it was.
RPM,
What I do know is that if a high performance quad wins every catagory (or most catagories) in their shoot out it should win, no matter who makes it. But that isn't how it always happens. In fact it rarely happens that way at Hi Torque. Sometimes they'll pick the quad with the lowest price or one that has reverse or one that has the best fit and finish etc. High performance quads should be judged by their performance, not whether they have reverse (I have yet to see ANYBODY racing in reverse). Hey, the top professional rider's machines don't generally have reverse and these guys spend upwards of $15,000 on them. Does that make the Z-400 better than them? No, but they would have you believe that it was.
You and I have had this conversation before. I'm not in any way defending the Mags, what I am saying is that these Shootouts are Not and Never have been intended to prove which Quad is the FASTEST. They are also not intended for those of us who own the Quad that suits us best already. They are for the potentional buying public. Which includes everyone from the first time buyer to the 30 something average rider all the way to the 50 + person that wants to try and keep up with the Grand-kids.
There is a whole lot more to a Performance Quad than which one is the fastest. If that was the case, then give it to the Raptor or the C-Dale and let's not even bother waisting our time comparing them. Just Drag race them and who ever wins is the Champ.
The Mags like the Z400 for the same reason that they liked the 400EX. It is an all around good Performance Quad that will perform right up to the limitations of most average riders at a reasonable price. For the more experienced rider, as their skills increase, the Quad can be moded to what ever performance level they desire just as any of the other Quads can be.
Wheather or not you or I agree, the Quad buying public on average is not looking for a Drag bike, they are looking for a Quad that they can get that will perform well and one they won't have to sell the farm to buy. This is not a person that is going to make a living racing a Quad, nor is it someone that has any desire to rotate the earth. Just lookin for a little fun.
We, meaning the members of this Forum are only a small section of the overall Quad rideing public (600,000 Quads sold in 2002). The Mags are not doing these comparisons for US.
#40
01-28-2003 | 12:12 PM
Elite Pro Rider
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,380
Likes: 1
Predator, Cannondale, Z400, Raptor shootout
You know this can be debated till the end of time. The harsh reality is that no journalistic publication is unbiased, there are always factors that weigh into the final outcome. This is true in news, product reviews, car mags, bike mags, and every other kind of review and presentation of information. Everyone has someone higher up they have to answer to, and the bucks have to keep coming.
So, we need to realize that the best way to compare quads is to line them up and ride them ourselves, and not take anyone else's word for it. Unfortunately, we cant all do that, so we need to take everything said in the press and the forums and the opinions of those we know with a grain of salt.
So, we need to realize that the best way to compare quads is to line them up and ride them ourselves, and not take anyone else's word for it. Unfortunately, we cant all do that, so we need to take everything said in the press and the forums and the opinions of those we know with a grain of salt.