770 POWROLL KIT?
May 21, 2002 | 02:43 AM
#304
Pro Rider
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 778
Likes: 0
Pam,
I am not the LAWYER for any ATV company. I have not appeared, prepared a complaint or written a legal correspondence on any topic for any ATV company. Moving forward (but still avoiding the 770 issues), I will respond briefly to your last post.
I have spent over 25 years researching, designing and building race engines. Building race engines is my passion. Perhaps what I enjoy more than engine building is helping others with their desire to build faster machines. I am sure you can easily find people on this site and other sites that will attest to the fact that I have spent hundreds of hours helping these fellow riders build their machines.
There is no possible way you could consider my initial posts or emails to be nasty in bad faith. Why do you take offense? Instead of discussing the issues with your 770 engine design, you attempt to slam others. Now you say that the activities here are “mean spirited and downright wrong.” Is that an example of that fine customer service you keep mentioning?
Pam, I will tell you, if you post an opinion that is "unpopular" but I believe it to be accurate, I will be there in your favor. It has nothing to do with popular opinions or what shop I frequent. All I want to see is accurate information. If you believe I have posted something that is not accurate TELL ME! I would be glad to discuss it in the public or private message forum.
In closing, I ask you to look at some of the recent posts. The people here are well informed and well educated. They will not toss away several thousand dollars just because a product looked nice in print, photographed well, or was supported by a misleading dyno run. I have met many people on this and other sites and I can tell you that good information is much appreciated.
Now back to the Original Topic --- Are you ever going to address the legitimate questions about your 770? By the way, if that 770 was just built for a specific customer to his liking, why does the “kit” appear for sale on your web site?
I am not the LAWYER for any ATV company. I have not appeared, prepared a complaint or written a legal correspondence on any topic for any ATV company. Moving forward (but still avoiding the 770 issues), I will respond briefly to your last post.
I have spent over 25 years researching, designing and building race engines. Building race engines is my passion. Perhaps what I enjoy more than engine building is helping others with their desire to build faster machines. I am sure you can easily find people on this site and other sites that will attest to the fact that I have spent hundreds of hours helping these fellow riders build their machines.
There is no possible way you could consider my initial posts or emails to be nasty in bad faith. Why do you take offense? Instead of discussing the issues with your 770 engine design, you attempt to slam others. Now you say that the activities here are “mean spirited and downright wrong.” Is that an example of that fine customer service you keep mentioning?
Pam, I will tell you, if you post an opinion that is "unpopular" but I believe it to be accurate, I will be there in your favor. It has nothing to do with popular opinions or what shop I frequent. All I want to see is accurate information. If you believe I have posted something that is not accurate TELL ME! I would be glad to discuss it in the public or private message forum.
In closing, I ask you to look at some of the recent posts. The people here are well informed and well educated. They will not toss away several thousand dollars just because a product looked nice in print, photographed well, or was supported by a misleading dyno run. I have met many people on this and other sites and I can tell you that good information is much appreciated.
Now back to the Original Topic --- Are you ever going to address the legitimate questions about your 770? By the way, if that 770 was just built for a specific customer to his liking, why does the “kit” appear for sale on your web site?
May 21, 2002 | 02:55 AM
#305
Elite Pro Rider
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,549
Likes: 0
I appreciate you being here and answering questions knutz. You are the go fast shop for the DS's.
I think all the builders should put out as much info as possible. Just because some people disagree should not keep you from posting. I would rather have a engine that puts out less power if i knew i could get good service, a fair price, fast turn around, and get ahold of the company if i needed something. I kind of dread everyone in my group having a Trinity motor. lol Why is it so hard to get good service? Why are the piston prices so high?
Pam- Why are you worried about Jon? He ask questions. I enjoy reading the replies, and forming my own opinions. He has helped out many,many people on this forum. Stick around and do the same. We can all use more help. Stick around and help us. A large part of this group is the customer base. Many on here have bought numerous parts. I am thinking of a new exhaust system now, nothing wrong with the one i have now, just want a change. I refer people to trinity, rocky mountain atv, bobs etc. Stick around, help out and when people ask me where to go, i will be able to suggest your company.
I think all the builders should put out as much info as possible. Just because some people disagree should not keep you from posting. I would rather have a engine that puts out less power if i knew i could get good service, a fair price, fast turn around, and get ahold of the company if i needed something. I kind of dread everyone in my group having a Trinity motor. lol Why is it so hard to get good service? Why are the piston prices so high?
Pam- Why are you worried about Jon? He ask questions. I enjoy reading the replies, and forming my own opinions. He has helped out many,many people on this forum. Stick around and do the same. We can all use more help. Stick around and help us. A large part of this group is the customer base. Many on here have bought numerous parts. I am thinking of a new exhaust system now, nothing wrong with the one i have now, just want a change. I refer people to trinity, rocky mountain atv, bobs etc. Stick around, help out and when people ask me where to go, i will be able to suggest your company.
May 21, 2002 | 04:05 AM
#306
Pro Rider
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,041
Likes: 0
I do have to chime in here, Raptor720 does "seem" to have it in for the "not Trinity" companies. Most posts I have read give the impression that if it's not a Trinity product it's not worthy. I dont claim for a moment to have any great knowledge of the inner workings of these motors or builders but as a reader of these posts I do see an adversarial tone to them. Maybe it's the lawyer in him (I've got tons of lawyer jokes I'd love to use here [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] I wish people wouldnt take things so personal here. I'm sure Sparks, FST, Powroll, and Trinity didnt become sucessful by making junk. Everybody...lighten up! I'm up for a motor build myself, and this thread will have NO bearing on who I select to do my work. I'd love for Sparks to do it but with an April 2003 delivery date I'm going to go with someone who can deliver in a more reasonable manner. I may use Trinity but the constant banter kind of sours that thought. To be fair Harry himself has never posted anything I'd consider mudslinging and seems like a good guy.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]
May 21, 2002 | 01:41 PM
#307
Weekend Warrior
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Wow, this has been a great thread to read through...I've learned a lot....definately LMAO a few times, too!
Anyway, most of you know way more about engines than I do. I just bought an 02 Raptor in March. What a difference, going from a Honda Foreman! I originally planned on buying the Alba Raptor, but could only get "promised" specs on it. I was looking at purchasing the standard Alba Raptor, plus the high rise cam and piston. I got the faxed quote, and was looking at a lot of $$$ for the toy. I do know enough about how I ride that I wanted to see what type of power curve this Raptor would produce. I never could see a dyno, only promises...guess what, I didn't buy one from them....I want to see that what mods are being performed not only produce x horsepower, but also what the power curve is going to be on that engine. Could you imagine if I took a trip to Vegas to see my dad, with my hot new motor, and couldn't keep up with his honda foreman in the desert, as we "Brush Surf" at 10 mph, and crawl through valleys, creek beds, etc... It's taken him months to forgive me just for buying a Yamaha! haha Or, what if I loose a lot of mid range, because I am only gaining peak HP at the top end, but the build sacrifices mid range power....then my wife starts smoking me on the tight trails we ride.
Anyway, the jist of my post is, if you can't tell me what HP I can expect from your engine, and a dyno to back it up, then I will go somewhere else that will. It's just that simple. I'm just the average Joe. I'm old enough to have been screwed over by "reputable" companies. Seems a lot of places have realized that it costs me more money to fight them, than I lost, so it's easier for me to walk away. Some companies are counting on just that. I like to go fast, well, not just go fast (cause eventually a Datsun B210 will get going pretty fast), I am hooked on acceleration.
So back it up boys. I am your average consumer. I'm not affiliated with anyone on this site, and I haven't had my engine built yet. If you want my $3k, you better show me some proof that I'm getting what I pay for.
One last question for all you guys who made through this already too long post, I am probably going to buy a Trinity motor, because when I started calling shops, they are the only ones who could get me someone competent on the phone. Anyway, I am looking at their 686 and 727 motors. Anyone heard about the comparisons of the two engines. If anyone could give me their 2 cents worth on the pro's and con's of the 2 engines, I'd appreciate it. All I can tell is from what I've seen on Trinity's web site, and from talking to them. I wanted to find out other peoples opinions. I was led to beleive I didn't have to run racing fuel in either of these motors, that both of them rev off the charts, that they are longer lasting than the stock engine, and that the 686 produces 63HP, while the 727 produces 70HP. The difference in price makes no difference to me. Anyone seen the dynos on these two engines. Thanks in advance for your help...
Anyway, most of you know way more about engines than I do. I just bought an 02 Raptor in March. What a difference, going from a Honda Foreman! I originally planned on buying the Alba Raptor, but could only get "promised" specs on it. I was looking at purchasing the standard Alba Raptor, plus the high rise cam and piston. I got the faxed quote, and was looking at a lot of $$$ for the toy. I do know enough about how I ride that I wanted to see what type of power curve this Raptor would produce. I never could see a dyno, only promises...guess what, I didn't buy one from them....I want to see that what mods are being performed not only produce x horsepower, but also what the power curve is going to be on that engine. Could you imagine if I took a trip to Vegas to see my dad, with my hot new motor, and couldn't keep up with his honda foreman in the desert, as we "Brush Surf" at 10 mph, and crawl through valleys, creek beds, etc... It's taken him months to forgive me just for buying a Yamaha! haha Or, what if I loose a lot of mid range, because I am only gaining peak HP at the top end, but the build sacrifices mid range power....then my wife starts smoking me on the tight trails we ride.
Anyway, the jist of my post is, if you can't tell me what HP I can expect from your engine, and a dyno to back it up, then I will go somewhere else that will. It's just that simple. I'm just the average Joe. I'm old enough to have been screwed over by "reputable" companies. Seems a lot of places have realized that it costs me more money to fight them, than I lost, so it's easier for me to walk away. Some companies are counting on just that. I like to go fast, well, not just go fast (cause eventually a Datsun B210 will get going pretty fast), I am hooked on acceleration.
So back it up boys. I am your average consumer. I'm not affiliated with anyone on this site, and I haven't had my engine built yet. If you want my $3k, you better show me some proof that I'm getting what I pay for.
One last question for all you guys who made through this already too long post, I am probably going to buy a Trinity motor, because when I started calling shops, they are the only ones who could get me someone competent on the phone. Anyway, I am looking at their 686 and 727 motors. Anyone heard about the comparisons of the two engines. If anyone could give me their 2 cents worth on the pro's and con's of the 2 engines, I'd appreciate it. All I can tell is from what I've seen on Trinity's web site, and from talking to them. I wanted to find out other peoples opinions. I was led to beleive I didn't have to run racing fuel in either of these motors, that both of them rev off the charts, that they are longer lasting than the stock engine, and that the 686 produces 63HP, while the 727 produces 70HP. The difference in price makes no difference to me. Anyone seen the dynos on these two engines. Thanks in advance for your help...
May 21, 2002 | 02:04 PM
#308
Pro Rider
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
I really hate to say this because I think some aftermarketer's have offered some great input but, If I were one, I would stay off the forums. All I see is a downside. It is much cheaper to advertise in a magazine for exposure than to look to the forums for business. Add up the time spent on the forums and ask yourself, how many more engines could I get out in that time and what would the profit be and I am sure your answer would be that it is a no brainer.
May 21, 2002 | 02:05 PM
#309
Pro Rider
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,878
Likes: 0
I agree with 14mins, 45auto, knutz, raptor720, kingraptor, velocityraptor, airraptor, azsand, vegas650, swytak, and pam falcioni. I am starting a new company and you are all hired. Separate offices for everyone but happy-hour on Fridays (together!!!) is mandatory. Now....the first order of business is building the fastest and most reliable Raptor and DS motors on the planet. GET TO WORK and discuss your findings here!!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Scott
CEO, President, Owner.
Scott
CEO, President, Owner.