1) Engine problems.. If your quad wont run..post in here.

New CDI...

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  #61  
Old 07-29-2012, 07:04 PM
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I'm on vacation at the moment, and haven't had internet access available at a rate I'm williing to pay. Tonight I get complementary access, so I get a few long past due replies off....

Originally Posted by cesar110
I will probably follow that diagram. Will a plastic project box hold it (the ones at RadioShack)? I think I'm going to need a heatsink type box instead. I've heard about MOSFET regulators and switching ones, are those any better? And would I be able to build that? ...
There are many ways to take AC voltage from from the stator and turn it into DC. The schematic above is only one of many.

Notice on the last diagram several parts were marked "heat sink". These require a good thermal connection to a finned heat sink - and requires that it be bolted to ground also (another heat path).

Originally Posted by cesar110
...Also, how do stators subtract from horsepower? And how is the stator output "inherently current limited"? Sorry for all of the questions...
When you spin magnets past a coil of wire that induces a voltage across the coil. As long as the current drawn out is zero there is no power being generated (power is the voltage times the current, any voltage times zero is still zero). But as soon as you draw any current you are consuming power which has to come out of the engine. There is no free lunch - power coming off the stator has to load down the engine. Here's how it does that: When you draw current it all comes through the coils in the stator. That generates a magnetic field which *opposes* the magnets generating the current. These two magnets pushing against each other makes the engine harder to turn - hence the reduction in available power at the wheels.

Power measured in watts is the same thing as power measured in horsepower. Power is power. In fact they can be equated - One horsepower is about 745 watts. It's just two different ways to measure the same thing - just like inches and meters both measure distance.

As you draw more and more current you reach a point of diminishing returns. The magnetic field of the coil starts to approach the strength of the magnets - forcing the magnetic fields from the flywheel magnets to go around the coil and limiting the ouput power.

If you short out the stator the current rises to maximum and the voltage collapses to zero. Zero volts times any current equals zero power.
 
  #62  
Old 08-02-2012, 12:47 PM
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Thank you Lynn. I got the quad running and my own new wiring harness works! Push the start button on my atv and it fires right up! The DC CDI makes a BIG difference, it starts up way faster, snappier throttle, more speed, idles PERFECT, and it stays running. I also got a new 35 watt halogen headlamp for it and a 35 watt flood light on the handle bars. Thats 70 watts total, I'm not sure if the stator can support it . However the engine makes a clicking and a woosh sound on the top end, need to fix that. I think the carb is a bit small, thinking of a 26mm. I got the stator with one coil still, and still waiting for the second to come. My coil is HUGE, might be too big for the magnets on flywheel.
I hope you're having a good vacation Lynn.
 
  #63  
Old 08-02-2012, 12:49 PM
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Photos of stator.
 
Attached Thumbnails New CDI...-stator1sidephoto.jpg   New CDI...-stator2photo.jpg   New CDI...-stator3photo.jpg  
  #64  
Old 08-02-2012, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by cesar110
Thank you Lynn. I got the quad running and my own new wiring harness works! Push the start button on my atv and it fires right up! The DC CDI makes a BIG difference, it starts up way faster, snappier throttle, more speed, idles PERFECT, and it stays running. I also got a new 35 watt halogen headlamp for it and a 35 watt flood light on the handle bars. Thats 70 watts total, I'm not sure if the stator can support it . However the engine makes a clicking and a woosh sound on the top end, need to fix that. I think the carb is a bit small, thinking of a 26mm. I got the stator with one coil still, and still waiting for the second to come. My coil is HUGE, might be too big for the magnets on flywheel.
I hope you're having a good vacation Lynn.
You're welcome for the help. Congratulations on getting it running. Be sure to to tell us how the modified stator works when you get it finished .

70 watts is *way* too much power loading - even for your eventual modified stator. But here is how to measure if your stator is able to handle the load:

You will not hurt anything by loading the stator down with more than it can power. Stators are inherently current limiting by nature. If you put too big a load on the voltage drops to 12.6 volts where the battery then takes up the slack and provides the rest of the required current. But that also means your battery is getting discharged instead of being charged up.
This is situation normal for most quads at idle with headlights on. The max output of the stator in watts is proportional to engine speed. At idle the output is pretty meager and can't keep up with the headlights, so the battery is draining even though the engine is running. But when you run up the engine speed the output increases. The stator (through the voltage regulator) is able to provide enough power to drive the headlights, and more. The regulator then pushes the voltage up to 14 volts (+/- 0.5 volts) which is *above* the battery voltage of 12.6 volts. This causes current to flow backwards through the battery charging it back up.
You need to see if you have enough stator capacity to drive all the loads and raise the battery voltage to 14.0 volts at a medium fast engine speed (say 3000 RPM). That way, on average over normal engine speed ranges, the battery on average keeps charged. At idle it won't, but on average (which includes higher output at higher engine speeds) it will keep up.
Here's how to tell: Take you meter and set it to measure "Current" on the 10 amp scale. Uusally this involves moving the red meter probe over to a special "10 amp" input jack as well as setting the scale properly. Remove the main fuse coming off the battery, and insert the meter across the two fuse clips in the harness. Now all current (other than the starter motor current which goes though it own heavy gauge wires) will pass through the meter and be measured directly. Leave the meter in position for the rest of the tests. Turn on the headlights and set to high beam. You should see the current being drawn by the headlights. Note the polarity.
Now start up the quad. The current being drawn out of the battery will be diminished since some of the load current is being provided by the stator through the regulator - the rest is coming from the battery. Rev up the engine. Look at the current values and the polarity. If your stator can keep up with the load you will see the current go to zero with increasing speeds, reverse polarity and climb back up. The reversing of current polarity (current direction) is where you've reached the break even point where the stator is powering (barely) all the electrical loads. At higher engine speeds then the break even point you are measuring the battery "charging" current.
HID lights and LED lights are much, much more efficient than stock incandescant lights in terms of watts consumed versus lumens out. If your stator can't keep up with the new lights then keep the new lights and scrap the stock lights. There are some really impressive you tube videos of HID and LED lighting systems for quads. The only down side to them is the initial cost ($$$).

 
  #65  
Old 08-04-2012, 10:16 PM
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Ive been looking at HIDs and found this one: Motorcycle HID Bi-Xenon Bulb Kit H6 S2 BA20D 4300K Amber + Ballast + Relay 35W | eBay

What's your opinion? My current headlight looks like this one: photo attached ; Do you know what type of light this is?

I'm going to build the rectifier/regulator tomorrow (I only get to work on it during the weekends.)
 
Attached Thumbnails New CDI...-12-volt-35-watt-headlight-bulb.jpg  
  #66  
Old 08-06-2012, 12:22 AM
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Lynn! I made the R/R and it makes 7VDC at medium fast rev! When I get the other coil I will connect them in series. I really am impressed with my coil. I could run the headlights, CDI, and tail light all off one coil. I discovered the CDI could work with really low voltages, it was at 2.8 volts. Now I'm just having fun playing with the electrical. I will post pictures of the R/R soon.
 
  #67  
Old 08-06-2012, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cesar110
Lynn! I made the R/R and it makes 7VDC at medium fast rev! When I get the other coil I will connect them in series. I really am impressed with my coil. I could run the headlights, CDI, and tail light all off one coil. I discovered the CDI could work with really low voltages, it was at 2.8 volts. Now I'm just having fun playing with the electrical. I will post pictures of the R/R soon.
I'm not quite understanding this. If you're only putting out 7 volts at speed, how can you be powering headlights, CDI, and brake lights. At 7 volts the lights at least would be really dim. A Bic cigarette lighter would probably produce more light. I don't know for sure since I've never tried it, but I find it really hard to believe your DC powered CDI will run on only 2.8 volts DC. Are you sure you're not just running everything off your battery (and draining it while doing so)?
 
  #68  
Old 08-06-2012, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by cesar110
Lynn! I made the R/R and it makes 7VDC at medium fast rev! When I get the other coil I will connect them in series...
1) At idle, with the R/R unplugged, what AC voltage do you measure from your new coil?

2) If you take your new R/R that you built and temporarily short the two SCRs' gate and cathode together (Q2 and Q3), that will turn off any attempt at limiting the output. The regulator will go ***** to the wall trying to charge the battery. This is OK for a quick short term test, but don't do this for extended periods. What output voltage do you measure at roughly 3000 RPM with the headlights off, the regulator plugged in, and the battery hooked up?

And out of curiousity - where did you manage to buy your parts from? Did you do any part value substitutions?
 
  #69  
Old 08-06-2012, 11:56 PM
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Originally Posted by cesar110
Ive been looking at HIDs and found this one: Motorcycle HID Bi-Xenon Bulb Kit H6 S2 BA20D 4300K Amber + Ballast + Relay 35W | eBay

What's your opinion? My current headlight looks like this one: photo attached ; Do you know what type of light this is?...
35 watts is a lot to ask from a 110cc machine. I'm doubtful that it can be done. But I've never tried it so I don't know for sure.

I don't know anything specific about your current headlight bulb from the pic. I'm assuming it is an ordinary generic incandescant bulb?
 
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by LynnEdwards
I'm not quite understanding this. If you're only putting out 7 volts at speed, how can you be powering headlights, CDI, and brake lights. At 7 volts the lights at least would be really dim. A Bic cigarette lighter would probably produce more light. I don't know for sure since I've never tried it, but I find it really hard to believe your DC powered CDI will run on only 2.8 volts DC. Are you sure you're not just running everything off your battery (and draining it while doing so)?
I didn't think it could run off 2.8 volts either, but it did. I made sure it wasn't running off the battery too.
 


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