They really slapped the face of Honda
Feb 28, 2005 | 10:20 AM
#31
Shed Knocker Rider
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They really slapped the face of Honda
It's not like Honda doesn't know how to put out a top of the line sport bike. Look at MX dirtbikes, you can't buy a better PERFORMANCE bike right now then the Honda's. I think the reasons the quads aren;t as High Performance is because most ATV riders are casual riders, NOT racers.
Granted, I believe Honda should come out with a hi-po flagship sport quad and ute, but the rest of the line-up should be left alone. Why? They are simple, and get the job done. Everyone keeps throwing out bigger and bigger quads every year, yeah they're cool, BUT in all honesty all that weight is NO fun after a while. Not to mention if you are the average guy and have to work on these complicated machines.
Like I said, IMO Honda is shootin themselves in the foot by not having 2 or 3 advanced flagship models, but the other 85% of the line-up is on target. Next time your at the dealer, look at the craftsmanship, it is far better than any other brand. Like or hate Honda, it is the truth.
Take my Z for example, Honda lost a sale on me cause I wanted a little more performance bike, but I will admit my Z isn't built as good as my ex and I don't think it will take the abuse my EX has had in the past few years without some serious maintnance.
Granted, I believe Honda should come out with a hi-po flagship sport quad and ute, but the rest of the line-up should be left alone. Why? They are simple, and get the job done. Everyone keeps throwing out bigger and bigger quads every year, yeah they're cool, BUT in all honesty all that weight is NO fun after a while. Not to mention if you are the average guy and have to work on these complicated machines.
Like I said, IMO Honda is shootin themselves in the foot by not having 2 or 3 advanced flagship models, but the other 85% of the line-up is on target. Next time your at the dealer, look at the craftsmanship, it is far better than any other brand. Like or hate Honda, it is the truth.
Take my Z for example, Honda lost a sale on me cause I wanted a little more performance bike, but I will admit my Z isn't built as good as my ex and I don't think it will take the abuse my EX has had in the past few years without some serious maintnance.
Feb 28, 2005 | 12:31 PM
#32
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Weekend Warrior
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They really slapped the face of Honda
And I DISAGREE with MOTO..I dont think Honda ATVs are crafted much better,if any [to merit having the HIGHEST MSRP in its class]] than the other manufactures ATVs since 2002-2003?I worked at a Honda ONLY dealership and I also worked at a muti-line dealership..Honda does not impress me any more than any of the other manufactures reliability records since 2002 or so?And MOTO mentioned all that extra weight get to you after awhile?True Sir,but Honda's Flagship 4x4 Model [Rincon 650] and the Yamaha Grizz,Suzuki KQ,Kawi Brute Force,dont weigh ANYMORE than a Honda Rincon,so what EXACTLY are you getting at?If you are comparing the weight of the Rincon to that of a Polaris,I would agree with you,however,there are alot of ATVs in the same class as the Rincon with ALOT more features that weigh the same and cost less $$.
The reason you see Honda #1 in with the dirt bikes is because the dirt bikes were not involved in the 1988 Consent Decree agreement that sent the Honda top dogs into a scary freenzie with regards to lawsuits and ATVs..
When Suzuki introduced the Z-400 to the ATV market,it vertually KILLED the sale of 400ex ATVs at the Honda dealership that I worked at..More evidence of Honda's not playing with what customers really want when it comes to ATVs..
Im WONDERING what all these Honda loyal fans are going to say by 2008 when Honda will NO LONGER be leading the ATV industry in overall ATV sales?What will your excuse be than?
Anyways,
remember that Mr Hall and I------TOLD YOU SO!
The reason you see Honda #1 in with the dirt bikes is because the dirt bikes were not involved in the 1988 Consent Decree agreement that sent the Honda top dogs into a scary freenzie with regards to lawsuits and ATVs..
When Suzuki introduced the Z-400 to the ATV market,it vertually KILLED the sale of 400ex ATVs at the Honda dealership that I worked at..More evidence of Honda's not playing with what customers really want when it comes to ATVs..
Im WONDERING what all these Honda loyal fans are going to say by 2008 when Honda will NO LONGER be leading the ATV industry in overall ATV sales?What will your excuse be than?
Anyways,
remember that Mr Hall and I------TOLD YOU SO!
Feb 28, 2005 | 12:55 PM
#33
Shed Knocker Rider
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They really slapped the face of Honda
One thing to remember here, I am no totally defending Honda.
You ain't got sense god give a goose if you think the craftmenship of fine details isn't superior wheteher it be quads or bikes! Even Honda bashers will admit that.
You mention the weight of all companies being the same, exactly there all heavy and no fun. Honda or no Honda! If I was going to buy a ute I would buy a mid classed quad unless it was for work only. In the defense of the over-priced Rincon, I have rode most of these machines and the Rincon handles like a sport bike. But not worth the asking price IMO
"The reason you see Honda #1 in with the dirt bikes is because the dirt bikes were not involved in the 1988 Consent Decree agreement that sent the Honda top dogs into a scary freenzie with regards to lawsuits and ATVs.."
LOL, and what is the point in saying that? The other brands have the same rules, and there not as nice of bikes as the Honda. (right now anyways)
As for your Z400 comment, I said Honda lost a sell to myself cause of the Z being more advanced. So where are you getting at?
Im not sure, but I bet in the next few years, you will be seein some new things in the near future. From a business standpoint, Honda is not going to let themselves get to far behind when sales drop.
My defense with Honda is that for the average rider they are the way to go. Get the Job done and simple to work on. IMO gagdets is more to break and fool with. I like to ride not play with electronics. I don't even like the ES on Honda's.
I honestly believe if Honda would introduce a couple of high performance flagship models and left everything else the same, Honda would be #1 bar-none. Somethin for everyone, right now there leaving the 'gotta have the biggest and the baddest guys' out.
You ain't got sense god give a goose if you think the craftmenship of fine details isn't superior wheteher it be quads or bikes! Even Honda bashers will admit that.
You mention the weight of all companies being the same, exactly there all heavy and no fun. Honda or no Honda! If I was going to buy a ute I would buy a mid classed quad unless it was for work only. In the defense of the over-priced Rincon, I have rode most of these machines and the Rincon handles like a sport bike. But not worth the asking price IMO
"The reason you see Honda #1 in with the dirt bikes is because the dirt bikes were not involved in the 1988 Consent Decree agreement that sent the Honda top dogs into a scary freenzie with regards to lawsuits and ATVs.."
LOL, and what is the point in saying that? The other brands have the same rules, and there not as nice of bikes as the Honda. (right now anyways)
As for your Z400 comment, I said Honda lost a sell to myself cause of the Z being more advanced. So where are you getting at?
Im not sure, but I bet in the next few years, you will be seein some new things in the near future. From a business standpoint, Honda is not going to let themselves get to far behind when sales drop.
My defense with Honda is that for the average rider they are the way to go. Get the Job done and simple to work on. IMO gagdets is more to break and fool with. I like to ride not play with electronics. I don't even like the ES on Honda's.
I honestly believe if Honda would introduce a couple of high performance flagship models and left everything else the same, Honda would be #1 bar-none. Somethin for everyone, right now there leaving the 'gotta have the biggest and the baddest guys' out.
Feb 28, 2005 | 12:58 PM
#34
Range Rover
Joined: Dec 2003
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They really slapped the face of Honda
MUDDY4LIFE, I don't blame you for abandoning the HL thread and jumping on this one. I don't frequent this site as much, so you may actually have a chance to win a few arguments this time... If I let you.
Feb 28, 2005 | 01:07 PM
#35
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Weekend Warrior
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They really slapped the face of Honda
Thats cool and your entitled to your opinion..
Even IF Honda introduced some high performance flagship models in the near future,I dont feel it would do much to bring them back to the top again when/if they fall..WHY?
Because the last time I checked, 85% of all ATVs sold are of the Utility type.
ATVTECH,
I did'nt abandon ANY site and I certainly have NO FEAR of you blasting at the mouth in here either..You know,there are those that would love to see things from your perspective,but we just cant seem to get our heads that far up our ASZes.
Even IF Honda introduced some high performance flagship models in the near future,I dont feel it would do much to bring them back to the top again when/if they fall..WHY?
Because the last time I checked, 85% of all ATVs sold are of the Utility type.
ATVTECH,
I did'nt abandon ANY site and I certainly have NO FEAR of you blasting at the mouth in here either..You know,there are those that would love to see things from your perspective,but we just cant seem to get our heads that far up our ASZes.
Feb 28, 2005 | 02:24 PM
#36
Shed Knocker Rider
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They really slapped the face of Honda
There is a awful lot of ex's out there to just make up 15% of sport quad sales. Anyways it doesn't matter. One other thing I really like about Honda's, and this is the main reason, is that nearly all of there models whether it be sport or ute, are well ballanced. You can feel safe going up monster hills or pitching it sideways. I have been and still am around many makes and models, and out of the other brands, a good percentage of there quads just doesn't "feel" well balanced and kind of cheap.
Believe me I am not biased, just stating my opinion. I have owned machines from all of the big 4 and have been seriously involved in the sport for 16 years now. And here is a super short summary of the big four brands IMO..
Honda- reliable and well balanced, but needs to step it up in some areas
Yamaha- not afraid to put out a highperformance machine, but the overall package doesn't seem to flow
Kawisaki- not afraid to do something different, problem with that is a lot of people are afraid of change
Suzuki- upgrades Honda designs and ideas which makes a nice machine, but they need to be a little more orginal to stand out
Believe me I am not biased, just stating my opinion. I have owned machines from all of the big 4 and have been seriously involved in the sport for 16 years now. And here is a super short summary of the big four brands IMO..
Honda- reliable and well balanced, but needs to step it up in some areas
Yamaha- not afraid to put out a highperformance machine, but the overall package doesn't seem to flow
Kawisaki- not afraid to do something different, problem with that is a lot of people are afraid of change
Suzuki- upgrades Honda designs and ideas which makes a nice machine, but they need to be a little more orginal to stand out
Feb 28, 2005 | 03:05 PM
#37
Range Rover
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 152
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They really slapped the face of Honda
Are you listening, Honda?
First of all, I'm a geezer (67), for what that's worth. About 80% of the riders at the
Rocky Mountain ATV Jamboree are geezers, too, 'cuz our generation has a *lot*
of money and aren't bashful about spending it 'fore our children fight over it.
I've owned Honda motorcycles; CB360 twin
CBK 750 four
750 F four supersport
TL 125
TL 250
CR 250 ('73 Elsinore)
CR 250 ('75 Elsinore)
2 MR 175's
'96 Foreman 400
'98 Foreman 450 ES
I sold the '98 Foreman 450ES because, like the Foreman 400, it rode like a truck. Even
aftermarket shocks didn't help much. Then I bought a Polaris 425 Expedition. I've had
it for 5 years. It has disc brakes, is easy on my tail end and has a soft ride. I'd like a
few more CC's for the high altitude rides in Colorado and Utah.
I want a new quad, and although Honda has finally added disc brakes, I don't believe
Honda makes a model I want. The Suzuki King Quad looks ideal, but I'll wait another
year until the reverse gear "issue" is resolved. The Yamaha 450 Kodiak might be
an interim quad, dunno.
Bottom line, we'd like a Honda Rincon with all disc brakes, with a low range or an
an ES tranny.
Just in case you are listening.
First of all, I'm a geezer (67), for what that's worth. About 80% of the riders at the
Rocky Mountain ATV Jamboree are geezers, too, 'cuz our generation has a *lot*
of money and aren't bashful about spending it 'fore our children fight over it.
I've owned Honda motorcycles; CB360 twin
CBK 750 four
750 F four supersport
TL 125
TL 250
CR 250 ('73 Elsinore)
CR 250 ('75 Elsinore)
2 MR 175's
'96 Foreman 400
'98 Foreman 450 ES
I sold the '98 Foreman 450ES because, like the Foreman 400, it rode like a truck. Even
aftermarket shocks didn't help much. Then I bought a Polaris 425 Expedition. I've had
it for 5 years. It has disc brakes, is easy on my tail end and has a soft ride. I'd like a
few more CC's for the high altitude rides in Colorado and Utah.
I want a new quad, and although Honda has finally added disc brakes, I don't believe
Honda makes a model I want. The Suzuki King Quad looks ideal, but I'll wait another
year until the reverse gear "issue" is resolved. The Yamaha 450 Kodiak might be
an interim quad, dunno.
Bottom line, we'd like a Honda Rincon with all disc brakes, with a low range or an
an ES tranny.
Just in case you are listening.
Feb 28, 2005 | 03:41 PM
#38
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Weekend Warrior
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They really slapped the face of Honda
MOTO,
good post and even though I disagree with some of it,your right,it is an opinion and its how YOU feel about the situation----Does'nt mean your right,does'nt mean your wrong..
Im sorta like the EXPEDITIONER guy that just posted..With the exception of the Honda Rincon,Honda Utility ATVs have alot to be desired as far as a comfortable ride goes..especially when you concider how many other manufactures utility type ATVs that are out there that ride MUCH smoother and offer more features...Want me to go back to Honda?Give me the Rincon with a 750cc EFI engine,a front diff locker mode,disk brakes ALL THE WAY around,use the SAME tranny but give it another gear,give me a reverse over-ride button,and adjustable shocks..OH,and keep the price around 7500 or so?
Until than?I'll take my chances with my KQ..
good post and even though I disagree with some of it,your right,it is an opinion and its how YOU feel about the situation----Does'nt mean your right,does'nt mean your wrong..
Im sorta like the EXPEDITIONER guy that just posted..With the exception of the Honda Rincon,Honda Utility ATVs have alot to be desired as far as a comfortable ride goes..especially when you concider how many other manufactures utility type ATVs that are out there that ride MUCH smoother and offer more features...Want me to go back to Honda?Give me the Rincon with a 750cc EFI engine,a front diff locker mode,disk brakes ALL THE WAY around,use the SAME tranny but give it another gear,give me a reverse over-ride button,and adjustable shocks..OH,and keep the price around 7500 or so?
Until than?I'll take my chances with my KQ..
Feb 28, 2005 | 04:15 PM
#39
Shed Knocker Rider
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They really slapped the face of Honda
If I was going to buy a big boy ute I right now I would go with the KQ as well. Suzuki really seems they finally are gettin there **** straight.
I agree with you muddy4life that Honda does need to add some latest and greatest goodies to there machines, Why they don't do it? I am puzzled, I understand why they leave mid-size to smaller class model alone. But I still can't figure why they don't make the bigger class quads fancy, in my mind it would attract even smaller to mid-size buyers.
I agree with you muddy4life that Honda does need to add some latest and greatest goodies to there machines, Why they don't do it? I am puzzled, I understand why they leave mid-size to smaller class model alone. But I still can't figure why they don't make the bigger class quads fancy, in my mind it would attract even smaller to mid-size buyers.
