They really slapped the face of Honda
Mar 7, 2005 | 12:46 AM
#132
Pro Rider
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They really slapped the face of Honda
IMO we have a big variation in how utility ATVs are used. One end of spectrom is a tool for ranch or business that uses quad 5 to 7 days a week year round and intends to keep for 10 years. The other end is the play rider who goes out 6 weekends a year and intends to sell about every 2 years. Looks to me that nearly all of the posts on this thread are from the weekend play rider. Honda has designed and built the Ranchers, the Foremans, and Recon as serious working tools for the ranch or business and must be economical and reliable with only features that are needed. Honda has hit the bullseye with their working quads and do not need anything that raises price without significantly improving functionality such as EFI, IRS, liquid cooling, or more power. Because of Honda reputation many strictly play riders prefer the working tool ATV from Honda over the feature packed play ATV from someone else. I think Honda will continue to move slowly into the play 4WD ATV area by providing something like a 450 Rincon with IRS and beltless auto tranny and cautiously improve the 650 Rincon but seriously doubt if Honda will ever try to match feature for feature because so many buyers do not care about EFI, diff loc, high/low range etc, in a play utility quad plus Honda needs to keep prices competitive and reliability high. This suits me just fine.
Mar 7, 2005 | 01:07 AM
#133
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They really slapped the face of Honda
"Arguing on the internet is like being in the special olympics even if you win your still retarded." Very poor choice of words. Quite tasteless.
Expeditioneer
“The technical reason for the different performance going forward vs. backwards is because drum brakes have "leading shoes", which cause the drum to try and pull the shoe into the drum, thus increasing the stopping capability. As I understand it, two of the Honda Foreman's three drum brakes have the leading shoes in the forward direction.”
That is how automotive brakes work. The secondary shoe forces and wedges the primary shoe against the drum.
We have two Honda ATVs, both of these ATVs have one wheel cylinder for each brake shoe. Each shoe is forced against the drum by the wheel cylinder. They are not like current automotive drum bakes at all. The brakes on our ATVs work the same going forwards or backwards.
This may not be how all Honda drum brakes work, but I don't recall all the spings on ATV brakes like on vehicles.
Expeditioneer
“The technical reason for the different performance going forward vs. backwards is because drum brakes have "leading shoes", which cause the drum to try and pull the shoe into the drum, thus increasing the stopping capability. As I understand it, two of the Honda Foreman's three drum brakes have the leading shoes in the forward direction.”
That is how automotive brakes work. The secondary shoe forces and wedges the primary shoe against the drum.
We have two Honda ATVs, both of these ATVs have one wheel cylinder for each brake shoe. Each shoe is forced against the drum by the wheel cylinder. They are not like current automotive drum bakes at all. The brakes on our ATVs work the same going forwards or backwards.
This may not be how all Honda drum brakes work, but I don't recall all the spings on ATV brakes like on vehicles.
Mar 7, 2005 | 08:46 AM
#134
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Weekend Warrior
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They really slapped the face of Honda
OLDTURTLE,
Interesting observation on your behalf and I agree with much of it..
One thing troubles me though?I'll explain...You mentioned that one end of the ATV spectrum is used for a tool for ranch or bussiness,maybe 5-7 times per week?The others play..
If one uses his/her ATV as described above for WORK,dont you think that MOST of these folks that 'work' their ATVs would at least want a quad that was 'capable' of locking up the front differential??Honda does not manufacture a single ATV that is capable of doing this from the factory.[just curious about your response?]
Many folks also use their quads for work,and at the end of the day,might like a nice/comfortable ride thru the forest,a Rincon is a poor worker but a comfortable ride,a Foreman rides like a board but is a FANTASTIC worker[maybe one of the best?]..I used many of my ATVs dating back to 1983 with both work/play in mind..The thing I like about my new KQ [so far] is that I can haul a large load of wood thru my forest,plow mud or snow,and at the end of the day,I can still go out and play with the big dogs if I desire..And I can do it in comfort.
What ATV does Honda manufacture today that offers this??
Interesting observation on your behalf and I agree with much of it..
One thing troubles me though?I'll explain...You mentioned that one end of the ATV spectrum is used for a tool for ranch or bussiness,maybe 5-7 times per week?The others play..
If one uses his/her ATV as described above for WORK,dont you think that MOST of these folks that 'work' their ATVs would at least want a quad that was 'capable' of locking up the front differential??Honda does not manufacture a single ATV that is capable of doing this from the factory.[just curious about your response?]
Many folks also use their quads for work,and at the end of the day,might like a nice/comfortable ride thru the forest,a Rincon is a poor worker but a comfortable ride,a Foreman rides like a board but is a FANTASTIC worker[maybe one of the best?]..I used many of my ATVs dating back to 1983 with both work/play in mind..The thing I like about my new KQ [so far] is that I can haul a large load of wood thru my forest,plow mud or snow,and at the end of the day,I can still go out and play with the big dogs if I desire..And I can do it in comfort.
What ATV does Honda manufacture today that offers this??
Mar 7, 2005 | 09:36 AM
#135
Shed Knocker Rider
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They really slapped the face of Honda
Originally posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
Expeditioneer,
be careful,YOUR opinion might get you an IDIOT badge from Moto?
Expeditioneer,
be careful,YOUR opinion might get you an IDIOT badge from Moto?
Mar 7, 2005 | 09:49 AM
#136
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They really slapped the face of Honda
i have a locking diff on my kawi and you know somthing i hardly use it so a locking diff is not that important.
its nice to have but its hardly used.
and i put at least a 100 miles a week on my honda and i work 12hr shifts so im on my honda alot not just weekends.
its nice to have but its hardly used.
and i put at least a 100 miles a week on my honda and i work 12hr shifts so im on my honda alot not just weekends.
Mar 7, 2005 | 10:45 AM
#137
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Weekend Warrior
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They really slapped the face of Honda
MUDBLASTER,
thats fine that you hardly have to use the diff lock on the Kawi,but,is'nt it nice knowing that its there,IF you need it?You also have a Warn 2500lb Winch..Think about what you just said about the locking diff and not needing it often..I also have a Warn 2500lb Winch that hardly EVER gets used,but man,its sure nice knowing its there IF I needed it..
It just 'seems' to me that if a person working his ATV on a farm ect knew that they were going to WORK the quad,that the locking differential[AND a reverse OVER-RIDE button] is something they would certainly want as a feature..I suppose you could forget about all the extra features [IRS,switchable 2wd-4wd,adjustable suspension,EFI,ect ect,because its not really needed IF that s all your going to do with your quad is WORK?
In Michigan,we sold 188 THOUSAND Off Road Vehicle [ORV] stickers last year alone..That means that there are AT LEAST 188k ATVers that use our trail system in Michigan..Im curious how many just do WORK with their Quads and no play?
thats fine that you hardly have to use the diff lock on the Kawi,but,is'nt it nice knowing that its there,IF you need it?You also have a Warn 2500lb Winch..Think about what you just said about the locking diff and not needing it often..I also have a Warn 2500lb Winch that hardly EVER gets used,but man,its sure nice knowing its there IF I needed it..
It just 'seems' to me that if a person working his ATV on a farm ect knew that they were going to WORK the quad,that the locking differential[AND a reverse OVER-RIDE button] is something they would certainly want as a feature..I suppose you could forget about all the extra features [IRS,switchable 2wd-4wd,adjustable suspension,EFI,ect ect,because its not really needed IF that s all your going to do with your quad is WORK?
In Michigan,we sold 188 THOUSAND Off Road Vehicle [ORV] stickers last year alone..That means that there are AT LEAST 188k ATVers that use our trail system in Michigan..Im curious how many just do WORK with their Quads and no play?
Mar 7, 2005 | 11:34 AM
#138
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They really slapped the face of Honda
Locking differentials are great! There is no other differential as aggressive. The vast majority of the ATVs without locking differentials will take their owners 100% of the places they ever go.
That feature is not on the top of everyones lists. Things that are high on my list are, dependability, stability, quality, no belt, and no manual transmission.
A feature that is seldom used is not enough of a priority to me to make a buying decision. I prefer to make decions that effect every riding moment.
That feature is not on the top of everyones lists. Things that are high on my list are, dependability, stability, quality, no belt, and no manual transmission.
A feature that is seldom used is not enough of a priority to me to make a buying decision. I prefer to make decions that effect every riding moment.
Mar 7, 2005 | 11:52 AM
#139
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They really slapped the face of Honda
If some of this has been said, then I apologize, I read pages 1-3 and the last page.
I have chimed in on these comments in a few other forums.
Honda Loyalists swear theres is nothing wrong with drum brakes and Limited slip differentials
Yet there is such a Huge aftrermarket demand for 2 key Items, well actually 3.
1. Warn 424
2. Detroit (or equivalent ) locker
3. Disc Brake Conversion.
Now, For the Warn 424 and Locker I would have to assume that a full 70% or greater of these are sold to Honda Owners. Not because there are so many more Honda quads in circulation, but because they are MOST IN NEED of upgrades to do what other machines do right off the showroom floor.
As for the Disc Brake conversion., I Guess thats all Honda.
A few years ago, there was no question Honda Built the Most reliable, POlaris was the most Unreliable, and the others fell in between there somewhere.
Today, the whole reliability issue is a huge grey area with no current manufacturers having a huge surge in problems, or surging ahead in ultimate reliability.
Having Said this, Honda has the following it has because of confidence it inspired in its riders years and Years ago. That kind of thing gets passed down to children and grandchilren. THIS is the reason Honda has the Following it has.
And also Having said that, I think they make a FIne machine, Not for My riding style, but obviously for alot of those out there.
I have chimed in on these comments in a few other forums.
Honda Loyalists swear theres is nothing wrong with drum brakes and Limited slip differentials
Yet there is such a Huge aftrermarket demand for 2 key Items, well actually 3.
1. Warn 424
2. Detroit (or equivalent ) locker
3. Disc Brake Conversion.
Now, For the Warn 424 and Locker I would have to assume that a full 70% or greater of these are sold to Honda Owners. Not because there are so many more Honda quads in circulation, but because they are MOST IN NEED of upgrades to do what other machines do right off the showroom floor.
As for the Disc Brake conversion., I Guess thats all Honda.
A few years ago, there was no question Honda Built the Most reliable, POlaris was the most Unreliable, and the others fell in between there somewhere.
Today, the whole reliability issue is a huge grey area with no current manufacturers having a huge surge in problems, or surging ahead in ultimate reliability.
Having Said this, Honda has the following it has because of confidence it inspired in its riders years and Years ago. That kind of thing gets passed down to children and grandchilren. THIS is the reason Honda has the Following it has.
And also Having said that, I think they make a FIne machine, Not for My riding style, but obviously for alot of those out there.
Mar 7, 2005 | 01:25 PM
#140
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Weekend Warrior
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They really slapped the face of Honda
SPECTRA,
You quoted that the vast majority of ATVs without lockers will take their owners 100% of the places they will ever go..I just dont share the same opinion of that.More often than you may think,I've seen riders without lockers NOT go where those with lockers do,so im not sure about the 100% of the time stuff you speak of?
If so,I guess you could say the samething about those that dont have winches on their ATVs..I mean,those without winches can also pretty much get to the same places that those without winches can,as long as you have a tow strap.
You quoted that the vast majority of ATVs without lockers will take their owners 100% of the places they will ever go..I just dont share the same opinion of that.More often than you may think,I've seen riders without lockers NOT go where those with lockers do,so im not sure about the 100% of the time stuff you speak of?
If so,I guess you could say the samething about those that dont have winches on their ATVs..I mean,those without winches can also pretty much get to the same places that those without winches can,as long as you have a tow strap.