I agree with you that the subject of fish and game rights on the reservation is a subject that is going to be resolved way above our heads... however as you say, they may fish themselves out of existence.. and what would they do then? Perhaps it may be a hard lesson that needs to be learned.
The issue that I was trying to bring out, is that not only in the state of Wisconsin but other states as well, there are areas where people are treated differently because their skin is Red, Yellow, black etc... it is not something that many are proud of or overtly practice.. it just is...

How many times do you hear conversations where a person is referred to as Indian, or Asian.. or black, or Amish for that matter.. instead of American, or man or woman... See what I mean?

I am not trying to start a racial bias war of words here... I just want to highlight the fact that people on this thread start talking about one individual and all of a sudden his entire race or community is bad.. It has nothing to do with whether they had anything to do with the shootings or not... everyone starts looking at the other people with a suspicious eye.. and that is what I think is wrong.

You have to admit there are a lot of people out in the woods that would read what is said on this list, and God forbid, might just take a shot at someone because of the incitefull remarks made here..... that would further the tragedy of the whole incident.

I mean no disrespect to any person, race, color or creed here, nor do I wish to make the people of Wisconsin feel singled out (I am A Wisconsin native too), because this happens all over the country... I thought we had come a great distance as a nation of tolerance since the 60's... but judging by many remarks, albeit from a handful of people, we still have a ways to go as a nation. Remember, the Pledge says ONE NATION and indivisible in it... One of the reasons we are called the UNITED States...

Sorry, I just can't sit by and let someone spout remarks of this type without standing up and being counted... I fought for the rights of all Americans, and anyone living within the borders of our great nation... If that makes me NUTS as was insinuated... so be it...

As for the shooter.. you are right.. we don't know all the facts.. we were not there.... I doubt anyone will be able to justify hunting down and killing of unarmed individuals.. but I can already see an insanity defense that was formulated many years ago in some rice paddy in SE Asia... I can at least understand how it may have happened.. and I emphasize the word MAY... but you won't hear me make statements like hanging him by his ********* either.... I trust in our legal system.. and I pity the poor souls who will eventually have to sit in judgement... This will surely be a terrible and tragic case.

This case is going to incite a great deal of emotion on both sides... I doubt we have heard the end of it yet...

 

Dragginbutt,

I am one that strongly believes that everyone can express there opinion on these forums without having to be "attacked". Sometimes folks just need to agree to disagree [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Ya, I spose you can look at it like I was defending you a little bit. But that's not why I posted.
It looks like I was defending you because I agree and UNDERSTAND quite a bit of what you are saying.
I didn't think he did, so tried to enlighten him a little bit.
Again, I am not attacking him, but I think some of his statements were a little naive considering the facts.
I would not call somebody naive just because they have an opinion, but there are many many facts to dispute his comments, especially about the veterans.

Anyway, good follow up posts by you.

As we all do, I hope the justice system takes care of this guy as it should.
I'm sure they'll plenty more to come out on this story.

Everybody enjoy the Holidays and be safe. Be thankful for what we have. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

I agree with you 100% because I have already heard people blame the entire hmong population and it is wrong and in no way condone it. In fact I go out of my way to tell people that you can't codemn the whole hmong population because of one bad apple. All races have bad apples and all races are made up of mostly good honest people. It is a shame that we all just can't live happily together and enjoy the freedom this great nation provides. Unfortunately peoples opinions come not so much because they have a different color skin, But because of the ones that use the color of their skin and play the descrimination card when in fact there was no descrimination. I work for the government and see it all the time, People don't get hired buy qualifications alone anymore. I have seen many that are not remotely qualified for a job get the job because of a descrimination lawsuit when in fact the only descrimination turns out to be towards the qualified person. While the people that actually play that card may be quite small compared to the population the numbers are increasing. I don't care what race or gender someone is if they are not qualified for the job then they shouldn't get it. It is to bad that this happens because I truely believe that this is actually the cause of increasing racism. When A person takes a test for a job that says the 10 highest scores will get hired and even though they are the 7th they don't get it upsets them. Now take the same scenario and add the reason they didn't get it was because 3 minorities that didn't make the top 50 on the test get hired they get down right P.O'd. Who is actually discriminated against ?? I am all for giving anyone a shot, But I don't think anyone deserves special treatment because of there race or gender. Right or wrong I believe a lot of racism is self inflicted (for lack of a better term) by the ones that cry wolf just to get ahead. I have seen it happen more times than you could imagine where a person helps someone goes out of their way to hire someone and promote them as far as they can. After a short time the person applies for a job within the dept that he is not qualified to do and when he doesn't get it he files discrimination against the very person that got him the job and promotions in the first place. Granted it didn't go anywhere , But the supervisor got put through the wringer while they investigated. These types of actions are turning more and more people against them. Like I said I don't think that people are againt people for the color of their skin so much as they are against the special treatment they get and how some of them take advantage of it and bite the hand that feeds them. I personally think if things keep going the way they are it is going to get worse and worse. As I said I believe everyone deserves a fair shot, But is it fair when someone gets a job because of race or gender instead of qualifications ??? As far as the fishing the lakes out, That is what I fear will happen and it is a lesson I don't want them to learn the hard way because our families for generations to come deserve the right to hunt and fish and it is our duty to try and preserve that right. Besides that we owe it to our creator to do our best to preserve what he has given us. I realize they have a treaty, But times change and we need to look at the future of the wildlife as a whole and do our best to preserve it even if it means changing a treaty. Laws change all the time and when the treaty was signed they didn't have the modern equipment to slaughter the fish the way they do now. If we want to follow the treaty to a tee then they should make their own boats and nets and not use spotlights and fishing boats. We can't keep taking fish from lakes faster than the fish can reproduce or there will be nothing left. Treaty or no treaty it is wrong to keep alowing it to happen.That may sound racist, But it is not meant to be and I am just trying to say our number one reponsibilty is to our natural enviroment. Without it our future on this earth will be limited.

 

Everybody enjoy the Holidays and be safe. Be thankful for what we have.

Amen !! God bless the USA !!! We are all lucky to have the freedom to express our feelings. I wish Everyone a safe and happy Holday season.

 

t'bolt, Agreed.... do you find it ironic that we turn out to be wanting to save the earths resources, and our brothers on the reservation are exploiting them to the point oof destruction? I am not sure I like the thought of being considered an environmentalist....

Don't get me wrong.. I do not consider you to be a racist.. and I understand your frustration with the system you are forced to work under. I understand more than you can imagine... And you are welcome... Those of us that serve, or have served this nation do so out of a deep appreciation for what this nation stands for. It is not a job.. it is an advocation, a priviledge, and an honor.

Quad4fun... I appreciate your comments... I wasn't being hostile towards you...the guy really got me riled up that is all. As you probably know, I don't usually attack someone.. fact is I am usually the peacemaker here...but this one over stepped the line and needed a good spanking.

I am glad my message got through to somebody... I just wish I could write in a way for all to understand. I write from the heart.. that is all I know. A lot of insight comes from the backgrounds we all share.. and it is always good to know you have others that feel the same way you do.. I don't claim to be right or wrong...but you can always count on me giving a rational response...

The day that we can't FEEL upset by these types of comments... well that would be a very sad day for all...

 

Well put Dragginbutt !! I to find it hard to put what I am trying to say into typed words so everyone understands. I wind up either sounding to harsh or what I write could be interpreted many different ways. I am just thank full to live in this great nation as we all should, Even those that claim to have it bad most likely have it pretty good. Even those that struggle to make ends meet and don't have many material things have it good if they have a roof over their heads and food on the table. I look at my wife and kids every morning before work and thank god I have them. I actually don't like to say goodbye to them I say I will see you after school because goodbye sounds to permanent.

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: Dragginbutt
Quad4fun... I appreciate your comments... I wasn't being hostile towards you...the guy really got me riled up that is all. As you probably know, I don't usually attack someone.. fact is I am usually the peacemaker here...but this one over stepped the line and needed a good spanking. q]

DB, no problem here, I didn't think that at all, in any way. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

OK...now that the group hug is over...

I pity the poor soul that trusts in our legal system....(no offense intended)

 

I agree that a few bad apples are in every race. I too am an Indian living on the reservation. I hunt and fish. I take what I need to eat and feed my family and extended family. We as a whole people do not over hunt or fish. We have respect for mother earth. We are the forerunners in conservation. As far as treaty, no Indian has ever signed a treaty that he has not honoured, no whiteman has ever honoured a treay that they have ever signed. I advise that before you start offering a misinformed opinion, learn a few on the "real" facts.

 

Rezboy, I trust by what your response says that you were responding to my post. Let me ask you this, Where in any of my posts did I say that the indians never honored a treaty ?? I didn't !! Also to say that No Indian has ever not honored a treaty is pretty far fetched as is to say that no white man has. While I agree the indians were not treated fairly that does not mean they were treated unfairly by all white men. I also do not believe every indian was the perfect honorable person that your post seems to say they were. Maybe I am reading into it maybe I am not, But as I said there are bad apples in every race and there always has been and always will be. To condemn a race because of the bad ones is just plain wrong. Also it sounds as though you have a grudge against white people for something that happened long before you were born. I never once said that indians as a whole were being wasteful, But I will say there are plenty of lakes being fished out because of their fising and taking to many fish each year. I will not get into a battle of the whiteman did this to the indians because it is in the past. What I care about now is the future of this great land and not about what happened more than 100 years ago. I don't care if there is a treaty that says they can take X amount of fish or not, If X amount is to many it needs to change. Times change and everyone needs to deal with it and agree on ways to preserve what god gave us. I don't like to see anyone mistreated in anyway and wish for all people to get along. You say to know the facts, But you and I both will only know what we are told or taught in school which neither is always 100% accurate. I don't know how old you are, But my guess would be not old enough to have even known anyone in person thawas alive in that era. Unless we were there it is hear say and I am not saying it didn't happen that way, But we will never know for sure. Lets just agree that we as American people need to work together to preserve what god has given us. We are so far off the original topic now it is unbelievable. I never meant any disrespect toward anyone and was only staing what I see happening. Back to the main topic anyone???

Rezboy, I hope everything is cool, I was not in anyway trying to disrespect your heritage and I apologize if I did. As I said I do not believe it is all and I know that there are plenty that do only take what they need and there are some that are greedy also. However if we put twenty families on one small lake and they only take what they need it may still be to much for the lake. The point about making the nets and such was not meant to be adig either, But I think you took it wrong. All I meant by that was with modern equipment it is so much easier to overfish than if it was done the old way and that maybe if the modern equipment is being used then the amount taken should be reduced.