Superman, if you knew what I knew about Muddy, you would not make those statements. I personally saw this man, support several items in the Task Force, that will make it very hard for him to continue with his Saftety training program. But Muddy supported those things because from the bottom of his heart, he wants every kid possible to have ORV Safety training. For him, and many others, to make some income off training in the future as a means of livelyhood, its going to be tough. Its the old thing, YOU might not like what you have, but YOU may like even less of what you get.
If what was recommended from that Task Force is implemented by the DNR, we will be in a brand new vehicle for training, with many tests to pass. There were a few around the state that were training up into the hundreds. Lets hope, we do not lose any currant expertise and they are able to adapt to the new program when implemented.

 

It seems quite apparent, this discussion with BB is near its end. BB, if I were you, I would take some of those suggestions offered at heart. If you chose to respond, thats fine, but you may further damage the sport and your own reputation. I know you are vary passionate in your positions and passion is an important equasion for sucess. All of us share some of your comments and desires. We will solve just a portion of our problems with more trail and better maintenance.

But there are far more vital issues to our sport than what has been displayed in this thread, one of those, I would like to address and it should probably be another topic. But we need to be involved in politics, everyone of us! Early on in my involvement in Lansing, I learned, the "squeaky wheel, gets the oil".
We as a group, do not realize our strength in the political area. We are one quarter million people, plus. We are now a good sized player in the political arena! It is our best interest to further unite, to be more politicaly active!
Having been around motorsports for five decades, you find a certain "heartbeat" I shall call it, among various groups. In my life, I have belonged and been around numerous organizations, unions, scouts, church groups, Eagles, Masons, political organizations. Each has their own "heartbeat" or way of doing things, may even call it an attitude.
But I have always been the most facinated by motorsports people. They seem to put real value in what is right and what is wrong. Maybe for some of us, we put the throttle to the stop and take the risk, grin when we make it. Others it the mechanics of the machine, we just appreciate good engineering. For some, its the solitude we gain from being on the trail and stopping to enjoy the moment and beauty of a "babbling brook" or a squirrel bouncing through the woods. To many, its the value of quality time spent with friends and family either at the races, or out on the trail.
No matter what your reasons are for participating, we all love what we do and spend dearly to enjoy it.
But we have created a fiber, a fiber of people who values are awesome. We need to take that fiber we have generated and place it the political arena. We have a need to be more united as user groups and let our voices be heard. All to often I hear, politics, bah humbug, I hate them.
Do you realize, if we were to get our act together, how affective we could be? A quarter million plus votes. Can you imagine how the politicians would bend over backwards to woo our votes? Think about it. As you know I am involved in getting the roadways opened in Iosco county. No, we are not brow beating anyone, we are simply stating the honest fact and offering it to the officials as an opportunity. An opportunity of convienance to the user to go the station after he plows out his driveway and get gas, two blocks away. We are saying, when we live a very short distance to the trailhead, why should we have to buy a trailer and load up to get there. We are saying, why should we not be allowed to drive into town and get gas and food when we are out on the trail. We are saying, why should the community not be able to have economic benefit from our dollars? We are also saying, we share forest managers concerns on illegal riding and do encourage those who do so, be busted! It's only the right thing to do.
Do you realize, that in many townships in northern Michigan, 40% or more of those on those twp. boards have in the past road trails on a motorcycle, they now either have an ATV or snowmobile, or both. Similar numbers hold true for our State Senators and Representatives.
Think about it, in some townships, there are enough ORV folks to control who is on the Board. The same would hold true for election of a State Rep or Senator, if all of us got together and voted the same way, we have the power to do that.
Michigan elections are less than 11 months away, are you going to be involved? Are you going to ask those running for office some tough questions? Are you going to vote for the wrong person? Are you going to vote? Are you, or your club going to help a candidate get elected?
Back to BB's noise about MMRC. Why do you think that group was formed? Very simple, as I learned decades ago, the biggest group that makes the loudest noise, gets the attention. The one move we made as a group, got rid of some undesireable legislation. BB and some others may not agree, but I am quite confidant, had they seen the big picture, they would have done the same. MMRC representated the largest single group of ORV users in the State. Sometimes, not often, one has to make a near instant decision, with little time to confer with anyone. Thats the risk of being up front in these challenges. Let me assure anyone reading, everytime possible, any decisions that are major, WE make them together through MMRC. I will never reveal who all the allies are in MMRC, some things in politics, you just don't share, nature of the beast. But I will assure you, every user group is represented!
Another lesson I learned early on, you are only as good as the people around you, no matter what your position. You must have strong supporters to your position, or change your position. One has to listen to the majority as long as they are well informed on the subject. If they are not, you have some educating to do.
Have been very fortunate in my life, have had some good people around me and our actions made me look good to most. Do know, the longer one is in this game, the more enemys you gain. Simply cannot please all the people all the time. Some can be vindictive, which is untolerable in our position. We can disagree, but don't be disagreeable. You do not get all the pie, all the time.
Enough said, I'll save the rest for another time.
By the way Dragginbutt, I started out on a 52 Matchless 500, do I have more seniority than you? Fellow gave me a 53 few years back, I in turn gave it to my son, its in at least, 462 pieces. Gonna get after him to get that thing done before they put me on the wrong side of the sod. One more time, I wanna shift that Burman up once, and down three. Be more fun to put the throttle to the stop and get er sideways into the first turn.

 

Since there seems to now be more motorcyclists in here singinging mud while not having the stones to identify themselves...I'll continue with the topic at hand and (sorry) "slowly" pull back this curtain regarding BR's original statement (the earlier half-truths in this first-ever "state-of-the-Michigan-orv-union" speech can be found addressed many weeks ago):

[quote]
Originally posted by: BusyRider
"...Let me hit on some of this "distant from the truth stuff": ORV Advisory Board is just that, an Advisory Board. Has no power, zero, is appointed by the DNR....."

It's just amazing to me how these guys are cut and dry hand-picked by our DNR to represent us and serve as the one and only contact we have with them....yet they are the first (along with the DNR, mind you) to claim that they have no power and know absolutely nothing about what the other is doing.
The chairman hand-picks a council to supposedly represent "all" of us.
We, as light 4-wheeled users, have to figure out who is on it (their names are never published in even the DNR meeting minutes) yet when we finally find out who this guy is?....he shuts up like a clam.(pretty much similiar to the one and only representative we ever had on the board....and this guy's "mentor").
Meanwhile, we go to the DNR and ask about this huge 22,000 member representative organization....they first claim to never hear of them...then claim that they will get us their website...then claim that the website doesn't exist and that they are merely some "informal" group!!!

Ran out of time; yet am hoping this reveals how much time it takes to simply reveal the rest of the story with these guys. In the meantime, here's a letter I wrote yesterday to some more people investigating this mess:


<u>No public listing of his fellow board member's contact information</u>
I stood up (I don't know how many years ago) to point out the fact that our advisory board <u>did not list contact info</u> for the very people that they serve; unlike the snowmobile advisory board, who had no problem doing the same.
First, I spent several months arguing with the chairman that his info wasn't displayed on the website (he simply brushed me off and claimed that it was)...which then progressed to the point of our DNR simply "informing" the public that any and all concerns with their board should go through <u>them first!</u>...which has 'now' evolved into an over year long un-finished and never reported on "study" by the DNR....as to how this information should be displayed in the first place! (the department finally had to add a blurb on their web claiming that all contact with these board members.would be released by them "when requested.

<u>Continually cancelled or delayed meetings:</u>

When the DNR cut our right to meet with them and this board down from 6 times a year to four and took <u>away</u> our stenographer so that anything said at these meetings could never be verified...they then started this game of "cancelling" meetings "because the public, advisory board and the DNR had 'nothing to talk about' at that time.
The last time this nonsense was pulled just happened to be right smack dab in the middle of our DNR receiving input and attempting to draft our "25 year update plan; which meant no contact from anybody on anything orv related for 6 months!!!...with another 8 weeks expiring <u>on top of that</u> before the public could even so much as view the minutes of that same long sought meeting! (we just recently waited over 4 weeks for these meeting minutes to be released....this coming after countless requests for the DNR to quit <u>intentionally</u> delaying our (and this is important) **ONLY*** method of being 'one-way' informed...and after each and every time the department acting 'surprised' that nothing was released yet!!!

<u>Board members serving beyond their terms and with no prior experience</u>

We are now dealing with 4 new board members who not only refuse to answer any correspondence sent their way; just as every one of their current and previous fellow members have chosen to do over the years (we excuse the sherrif's representative in this responsibility)...but who have absolutely no <u>record</u> of even so much as ATTENDING the same board they serve on for over 2 years! (if ever!).
Just as ridiculous is the fact that not only has the DNR strung these application processes <u>out</u> (for years) to the point where this board couldn't even field A QUORUM before this last bunch came in at the last hour....THEY STILL REFUSE TO <u>ANNOUNCE</u> EVEN THE IMPENDING EXPIRATION OF THEIR CHAIRMAN'S TERM; ALONG WITH THE OTHER USER REPRESENTATIVE'S TERM ON THE BOARD...NOR WILL THEY EVEN PUT A CALL OUT FOR APPLICATIONS TO <u>FILL</u> EITHER OF THEIR RESPECTIVE POSITIONS!
AND THIS IS WITH THESE TWO POSITIONS <u>EXPIRING</u> IN LESS THAN 3 WEEKS!
I could go on and on here; yet what kind of picture do I have to paint and how much time do I have to spend TELLING folks about this...***before the legislature finally realizes that NOBODY in this state is keeping <u>track</u> of these people....nor of the ridiculous self-serving agendas they are promoting/proposing!?***

Should "I" have to spend my 5 alloted minutes at these advisory board meetings (if they don't steal 3 of them away, as they did the last time I appeared) EXPLAINING WHY thegeneral public doesn't view "closing down one trail for 'study'...then building another one <u>right next to it</u>" as sound environmental policy
Should I have to explain WHY we need trails of sufficient width...if nothing else than to get the proper kind of 21st century modern machinery down same to sutainably maintain same <u>properly</u> in the future?
Should I have to stand here and spit in the wind about how each and every one of our machines (up to say a Ranger, Rhino or Argo) should be travelling on the same <u>or</u> parallel trail in a true multi-use system IDENTICAL to those in use all over this country?
And finally, do I really have to be the only person in this state with enough guts to finally claim that the motorcycle isn't god's given gift to the Michigan trail system (no matter WHO built it)....requiring the citizens of this state to not only view these two-wheeled machines as being just as separate and "unique" as the big trucks...yet with a birthright</u> to LAND that NOBODY should EVER have exclusive access to? (again, please tell me where this mindset has any other equal in outdoor recreation...besides maybe a strictly non-motorized "hiking only" trail?

Just an excerpt...yet thank god people are beginning to request info on these people and maybe finally start calling them out here on to the carpet and in to the light of day.

 

Did somebody hear something?

I thought I heard a 4year old crying over spilled milk.

 

BB. Thank You for your comments. Again, you did not answer anyones questions, back to your same rhetoric and false statements. Thanks for two steak dinners.

 

No, no, no, no.. thank you for the following statement copied from above:

Chairman of the DNR hand-picked Michigan Orv Advisory Board:
"...Let me assure anyone reading, everytime "possible", any decisions that are major, WE make them together through MMRC. I will never reveal who all the allies are in MMRC....some things in politics, ***you just don't share!***..."

You just can't beat somebody like this not knowing enough to keep their mouth shut....nor one who <u>vindicates</u> every single item you've ever labored hard to present...in one sentance! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

What's next?....maybe something about revealing the secret handshake? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Everyone see's a picture in a differant way, some only see the paint.

 

In order for the MMRC to make MAJOR decisions,it required MAJOR players. Who thru years of committment and dedication to the ADVANCEMENT of their sport,have displayed the roles of leadership and self worth.

With that said,its not a wonder why we did'nt include BB in the MMRC.

 

MR. muddy4life,
In all respect, What do you mean by " SELF WORTH" ?

 

Selfworth?

I beleive that when one takes on a particular role whether it be at the job or in life,that in time,that person should display signals or signs that he or she is capable of fullfilling the demands of the task at hand.Once acchomplished,this individule has proven his/her value to their piers.