But there's always going to be idiots that just do stupid stuff. Sorry to say this but if you don't have the common sense to watch where your going when your pulling a wheelie, or just showing off in general, you really can't feel bad when that person gets killed for being a dumbass. A BUS? Come on. How could you be dumb enough to challenge a bus for postion on any road while riding an ATV.

 

It was easy.. he was blasting up between several cars/trucks and trailers where people parked beside the road that led to the bus company, and to the riding area. It was normal for quads to putt along the road until reaching the riding area... but for some reason he decided to blast it one last time on his way to his trailer.

The bus driver not seeing him until it was too late, swerved at the last second and went into a steep ditch on the other side of the road and ended up on it's side The rest was history... I wasn't there personally that day, but had seen this kind of activity on many occasion. This time it cost everyone. The news paper article was pretty much along those lines.

We had another area even closer to our home that constantly had kids riding up the road and tracking mud in the street... It didn't take too long for the local business owners to get fed up with the muck covered access points, and they complained loudly to the authorities, who reacted in true fashion... resulting in another lost area. We tried to tell them that we would all suffer for their antics, but they wouldn't listen. Not so much wheelies in this case, but mud can be just as bad...

They pulled some sort of Save the Chesapeake deal on it becasue the area was in the Chesapeake bay watershed... You get a few environmentalist storm troopers involved, and you can kiss your dragginbutt goodbye. All them soccer mom environmental protestor wanna bees can really put on one heck of a show I'll tell you....

 

There's a right time/place to do wheelies and there's a wrong time/place. DragginButt gave you one example of the wrong place.

What im trying to say here is that for the most part, the general un-informed public has the WRONG impression about off road operators. You never hear about all the good things that ORV users do [deep wood rescues, police patrols, military , ect ect ect??? The general public never remembers the veiw of seeing 25 ORV users riding in a safe and responsable manner, they only remembered the idiot doing a wheelie last year in the resturant parking lot when he left it, all the time while spraying rocks all over the cars in the same lot. This 'showing off' you speak of in front of the WRONG folks can do ALOT of damge for the image of our sport.

For example, Rose City has adopted an ordinance that allows ORV users to ride the shoulder of their County roadways in the same direction of traffic, during daylight hours and under 20 mph. This new ordinance allows ORV users to access fuel, food and lodging in their County. This is a 3 year TRAIL basis and can be disallowed in 3 years if we abuse the priveldges. Do you think for one minute that if the wrong person in the county of Rose City spots one of us doing wheelies on our ORV down the middle of a county roadway, that this type of behaviour shows the residents of Rose City that we as ORVers DESERVE another 3 years of riding in their county when the current three years runs out?

I dont thinks so!

 

Exactly, but I think we can all admit that it is going to be an uphill challenge to teach responsible riding... especailly when there really isn't a national standard curriculum. Or definition for that matter. Even so, we will still see the same guys acting out whether they have the training or not.

We can educate the riders.. and heap all sorts of regulations on them, but it won't fix the root problem... How do you educate the PUBLIC? that is the million dollar question I do not think we have all teh answers to right now... I wish we did.

Involvement is a part of it. Settting examples is another. Creating safe environments would certainly be high on my list too. If for nothing more than to show that the taxpayers are getting their money's worth... In reality, it is the enthusiasts footing the bills with their fee's etc.

Generating positive news about how ATV's are improving quality of life is a good idea too. Most of all, choosing and supporting people to represent the interests of ATV enthusiasts is certainly a first prioity. And then close scrutiny to make sure their actions are in teh best interests of the whole group, not a select few.

 

Actually I was'nt talking about pulling a wheelie in the middle of town or on the shoulder of a county road. Hopefully common sense would prevail for most people and they would'nt do that. It goes back to what I was sayin' earlier, there's always gonna be douchebags nowhere where your at or how many people you train... I'm talkin' about out in the woods on the trails somewhere... Don't really think anyone should have an issue with that.

 

I guess we better all do as muddy says?? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

No wheelies

Do not go over 20 mph [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Muddy anything else?[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Motorsports [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

Im not requesting that you guys drive your ORVs as though your getting ready to go to a Sunday church meeting. I want you guys to have fun, but I also want you to realize that we are being WATCHED real close and any wrong move in front of the wrong folks will cause users a great deal of harm.

Heck, our OWN DNR had made up FALSE ACCIDENT reports in township board meetings all in an attempt to persuade those in power to NOT allow ORV use on their County roadways. Good thing Dick Reeney and a few other ORV users set the story straight in the exact same meeting with these guys and proved that these DNR reports were not only false, but OUTRIGHT lies.

You paid alot of money for your ORVs and should enjoy it. Use common sense when riding and IF you do get hurt, please dont tell the hospital that you got injured on your ORV because thats another black eye against us.

Now go do the right thing and RIDE ON!

 

I have a couple of basket cases and they dont run, but I dont list them.

Thanks for the info about yourself YZman400. With your knowledge/experience, do you think there is any common ground for 2 and 4 wheel riders to work together? I dont think they have anything in common especially if trail rides are supposed to turn into nature observation rides. Dont you guys have different levels of trails? We have a Expert/Intermediate/Novice markings in most of my riding areas and would assume you do too?

DB, I am amazed that you used a idiot riding a wheelie in a parking lot into a bus. As a example as why no one should wheelie on a trail.

 

Well 1st let me say that I do not hate the ATV croud. I have no problem riding with folks on Quads. Some of my friends ride them. I used to own a Banshee. As long as the trail system we are riding will acomidate that size ORV then I have no problem with them being otu there. We are all one big happy family.

Where I start to have a probelm is when I see ATV riders starting to push thru tight narrow trails that were never designed for ATV's. We have a few trails around here that are Motorcycle only. they are tight and technical. I love them. But the quads have been pushing thru them making them wider. They get widened out by nocking down small trees and re-routing the trail where they cant fit thru. This kills the trail that used to be tight and technical.

As I was saying before all we have in Michigan is trees and sime minor elevation changes. We dont have mountain ranges, rocks and ravenes to run trail thru. We have flat sandy tree covered land. What do you do to make the trail interesting in terain like that. You wind it thru the trees.

Im not much for a senic tour thru the woods on my bike. Thats not really why I ride. Not that I dont enjoy doing that once in a while. As I get older I start to enjoy nature more and more. But I still really like the challange of a tough ride.

To try and have one trail system that works for all of us here and still makes everyone happy is really dificult. You make it wide and people just ride faster. Typicaly I and many others ride as fast and hard as the terain / riding ability will allow them to. Make it wider and folk just ride faster. To me that is not safe. I dont like riding 60 thru the woods. 20 is more my speed. But doing 20 mph down a wide flat trail is not my idea of a thrill ride. Id rather be hopping over downd trees and mashing thru the rocks than flying sideways around a sandy 2-track.

We do have trails ratings that the CCC puts out. But that isn't really readily avaliable to the mass's (my point of view anyways). Some trails are harder than others but overall most everything we have is very similar. Some of the UP stuff is super challanging but that is more the exception than the rule.

I realize that us Motorcycle'st are the minority here in Michigan. But we have the majority voice in the ORV comunity. reading thru this thread I get the feeling that some would like nothing better than to have the bikers step aside and let the ATV comunity roll thru all the trails that the Cycle'st guys have been working hard for some 30 years to build/mainentaine.

Stepin up onto my soapbox

Ya know, not to point fingers here, but its not easy getting people together to to do trail work. It takes organization. My club the WMTR has a pretty good size membership. But on trail work weekends its like pulling teath to get someone out there to work. Ive been out there with me and another guy working over 30+ miles of trail in one day. Thats an *** kicker. But it has to be done. The CCC is an organized club and its still hard to get these projects done with enough manpower sometimes. What do you think would happen if the CCC just decided to step aside and be done with all the trail work and development that they bring to the table. I dont think we would like the outcome.

There off my soapbox now.

For me offroading is a hobby. Its not my life. My job and my family are my life. I volunteer as much time as I can putting back into the sport that has given me so much joy. But in the end its a hoby. I dont get paid for the work I do to support it. Im a nice guy but it only goes so far on a volunteer bassis if you know what I mean. Id rather be riding than spending every waking hour fighting for offroad rights. Lifes too short. Lets ride.

 

They not only want you to step aside and forget about all the years of m/c riders working on the trail system. They think its their right too, based only on recent sales numbers/registerd vehicles. Too bad they cant get even 1% of those owners to care enough to get involved. Or good for the m/c riders, it depends on your outlook.