85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
#4361
12-01-2008, 09:20 AM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Afuente
I am new here.....I have read through alot of discussions and learned alot. I bought my 85 LT230s a few months ago for $400. It barely ran, backfired and the head pipe would get cherry red after about two minutes of running.
It has a DG pipe that had a Spark Arestor. The SA was so tight that the aluminum pipe blew out a weld. I removed it and fixed the seam.
I stripped down the top end. The cylinder was clean, the head was black as can be and the timing was off. The plug was white however. After I put new gaskets on and re-timed it. I then cleaned the carb. The jets were clean but what I noticed was the mixture screw was only 1 turn out. This thing was as lean as can be along with a ton of backpressure from the SA being tightened down. I put the carb back together and started with the Mixture screw 2 turns out and the Idle screw 3 turns out.
Once I put it back together I turned on the gas and waited for the bowl to fill. The first Kick it started and idled. I let it run for a couple minutes and noticed it would pop a bit after I reved the throtle. I backed the mixture out 1 more turn and it sounds great. It does have a twist throtle that I am planning to change out to a thumb throtle.
It is fast, My neighbor has a Honda 250ex he can not keep up with me. I'm not sure if the Pipe would give it that much more power. I did not mic the cylinder when I had it a part.
Now that it is running good I used orange gel stripper to strip three coats of paint from the plastic. My wife wanted it Neon Green. She won that one.
I am having a problem with the chain comming off when I jump. I set the chain to be 1.5" of slack when I sit on it. I tried that with out sitting on it and when I sat down The chain got tight so that I could not move it up or down. There was no slack. Does it sound like I am ajusting the chain correctly? Is there an after market chain guide I should use? Any thoughts would be great.</end quote></div>
Yeah, a stock 230 will outrun a stock 250ex. I have a 2005 ex and its not very fast. I don't think those cheap pipes do much to add power to the 230. If they do, its not worth the noise in my opinion. A stock pipe with the drain bolts out does wonders.
If the chain gets tight after you jump, it will bend the swingarm or crush the bearings! You can't have it that tight. You need a new chain and probably new swingarm bearings. The only chain guide I've seen that's worth anything is the Yamaha Warrior one. It CANNOT come off if you can rig it up to work (ie. welding). I used to use that red roller looking thing, but I found out it adds so much resistence to the chain, its like having an oring chain. Plus it doesn't always keep the chain on. It helps, but its far from a guarantee.
The chains on these quads are the biggest trouble. You have to get the swingarm to stop wiggling around. That means new bearings and anything that looks worn (ie the big long s-arm bolt). And a new chain. You can't have a chain that bends sideways and expect it to stay on without being so tight that it kills the s-arm bearings.
I am new here.....I have read through alot of discussions and learned alot. I bought my 85 LT230s a few months ago for $400. It barely ran, backfired and the head pipe would get cherry red after about two minutes of running.
It has a DG pipe that had a Spark Arestor. The SA was so tight that the aluminum pipe blew out a weld. I removed it and fixed the seam.
I stripped down the top end. The cylinder was clean, the head was black as can be and the timing was off. The plug was white however. After I put new gaskets on and re-timed it. I then cleaned the carb. The jets were clean but what I noticed was the mixture screw was only 1 turn out. This thing was as lean as can be along with a ton of backpressure from the SA being tightened down. I put the carb back together and started with the Mixture screw 2 turns out and the Idle screw 3 turns out.
Once I put it back together I turned on the gas and waited for the bowl to fill. The first Kick it started and idled. I let it run for a couple minutes and noticed it would pop a bit after I reved the throtle. I backed the mixture out 1 more turn and it sounds great. It does have a twist throtle that I am planning to change out to a thumb throtle.
It is fast, My neighbor has a Honda 250ex he can not keep up with me. I'm not sure if the Pipe would give it that much more power. I did not mic the cylinder when I had it a part.
Now that it is running good I used orange gel stripper to strip three coats of paint from the plastic. My wife wanted it Neon Green. She won that one.
I am having a problem with the chain comming off when I jump. I set the chain to be 1.5" of slack when I sit on it. I tried that with out sitting on it and when I sat down The chain got tight so that I could not move it up or down. There was no slack. Does it sound like I am ajusting the chain correctly? Is there an after market chain guide I should use? Any thoughts would be great.</end quote></div>
Yeah, a stock 230 will outrun a stock 250ex. I have a 2005 ex and its not very fast. I don't think those cheap pipes do much to add power to the 230. If they do, its not worth the noise in my opinion. A stock pipe with the drain bolts out does wonders.
If the chain gets tight after you jump, it will bend the swingarm or crush the bearings! You can't have it that tight. You need a new chain and probably new swingarm bearings. The only chain guide I've seen that's worth anything is the Yamaha Warrior one. It CANNOT come off if you can rig it up to work (ie. welding). I used to use that red roller looking thing, but I found out it adds so much resistence to the chain, its like having an oring chain. Plus it doesn't always keep the chain on. It helps, but its far from a guarantee.
The chains on these quads are the biggest trouble. You have to get the swingarm to stop wiggling around. That means new bearings and anything that looks worn (ie the big long s-arm bolt). And a new chain. You can't have a chain that bends sideways and expect it to stay on without being so tight that it kills the s-arm bearings.
#4362
12-01-2008, 12:49 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
Sprokets are 12/41. How much diff would I see with 13/39? I will look at the swing arm. I have not looked at it yet. The new chain has been on my mind. I will go with the non-oring. I have access to a welder, I will look at the Chain guide you mentioned.
I have seen people have extended the swing arm like +4. Other than moving the Center of Gravity what addvantages does this have if any?
Is there an option to put longer A-arms on?
Thank you for your input JustRandy
I have seen people have extended the swing arm like +4. Other than moving the Center of Gravity what addvantages does this have if any?
Is there an option to put longer A-arms on?
Thank you for your input JustRandy
#4363
12-01-2008, 01:23 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
12/41 is quite low. 13/39 will space the gears out more and give you a bit more top speed. Where do you ride? Trails? What size tires do you have? If you have 20's, 12/41 is WAY low. I bet its a real wheelie machine! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] 13/39 with 20's for trail riding is pretty good. The only problem I've found is 4th gear is too tall for pulling hills and 3rd gear is too low, so I'm always either revving 3rd or boggin 4th.
12/41 with 22's is exactly the same as 12/39 with 20's. Both of those are stock setups for the 230/250 quadsports. So, making the front sprocket 13 is not that big of a jump if you have 20's.
I extended my s-arm 4 inches. I'll post pics later. I had to decide if I shot myself in the foot on that one or not. I think in the end I liked it, but it sure makes it hard to wheelie! Sliding is EASY now. I can't stress that enough. Before I added the 4 inches I was wanting a tire that would slide easy, now I'm looking for ways to get more hook up. The BEST way to do it is to length the front wheels away from the engine and not the back wheels. But then, how to mount the plastic and gas tank is the problem. It much easier to make the swingarm longer than it is to make the frame longer.
For the chain guide, just buy a warrior chain guide from ebay and weld a piece of angle iron to the s-arm. Bolt the warrior guide to it and your chain can't come off ever again. No way... unless you get a stick jammed in it or something like that.
Only option for a-arms is to make them longer yourself (like I did) or make the 250S ones work.... Or find some for some other quad and make them work. Or you could get those expensive (but really nice) aftermarket arms with the heim joints. Or just buy the heim joints and make your own arms from scratch (probably the best way). Like this: http://www.amstarmanufacturing...ages/A-102PSP_Kit2.jpg
Watch for pics later on. I got a bunch of them, but no time now.
12/41 with 22's is exactly the same as 12/39 with 20's. Both of those are stock setups for the 230/250 quadsports. So, making the front sprocket 13 is not that big of a jump if you have 20's.
I extended my s-arm 4 inches. I'll post pics later. I had to decide if I shot myself in the foot on that one or not. I think in the end I liked it, but it sure makes it hard to wheelie! Sliding is EASY now. I can't stress that enough. Before I added the 4 inches I was wanting a tire that would slide easy, now I'm looking for ways to get more hook up. The BEST way to do it is to length the front wheels away from the engine and not the back wheels. But then, how to mount the plastic and gas tank is the problem. It much easier to make the swingarm longer than it is to make the frame longer.
For the chain guide, just buy a warrior chain guide from ebay and weld a piece of angle iron to the s-arm. Bolt the warrior guide to it and your chain can't come off ever again. No way... unless you get a stick jammed in it or something like that.
Only option for a-arms is to make them longer yourself (like I did) or make the 250S ones work.... Or find some for some other quad and make them work. Or you could get those expensive (but really nice) aftermarket arms with the heim joints. Or just buy the heim joints and make your own arms from scratch (probably the best way). Like this: http://www.amstarmanufacturing...ages/A-102PSP_Kit2.jpg
Watch for pics later on. I got a bunch of them, but no time now.
#4364
12-01-2008, 02:07 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
I ride trails. There are alot of jumps and woops....I have not hit any big jumps....When I get the back off the ground the chain has come off. That happened twice. I will not get aggressive until I fix it.
I am looking at Maxxis tires. Now I have 22's, it is a wheelie machine. I would like to get enough power to be able to hit the woops and just lean back and punch it.
My buddy's Honda 450r is sweet. I know I won't get that much power but I can just lean back and hit it and hold on.
What size tires do you recomend and what gears?
I am looking at Maxxis tires. Now I have 22's, it is a wheelie machine. I would like to get enough power to be able to hit the woops and just lean back and punch it.
My buddy's Honda 450r is sweet. I know I won't get that much power but I can just lean back and hit it and hold on.
What size tires do you recomend and what gears?
#4365
12-01-2008, 03:22 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
I've been on this thread since page 30 or so and just about everybody I've seen likes the 13/39 with 20's. Me??? I'd like to try 12/36 and see if there is a difference. Its the same ratio as the 13/39, but chain weight and friction means less with a 12/36. I have a 37 in the garage, but haven't tried it yet. The gears I've tried are 14/41, 13/39, 12/41, and 12/39. I remember when I ordered the 14 I was thinking a 13/38 would be about perfect, but I couldn't find a 38. 14/41 sucks. 14/anything sucks. My buddy with the 250S likes his 11/39 with 20's. I tried the 11 for about 5 minutes and took it back off. Way too low for me. I can start in 4th gear spinning the tires! I'm not sure what he likes about it.... The torque I guess. That and he's a pretty big dude.
Its a tough call on gears. You have to just play around and see which one you like overall. The 12/41 is nice for popping wheelies and monster torque, but the 13/39 is good for getting the back wheels to hook up and keep the front end down while drag racing. For trail riding, the 12/41 will leave you shifting gears a lot. With the 13/39 you can stay in one gear longer, but 4th gear sucks because there is too big of a hump between 3rd and 4th. Suzuki corrected that with the 250S in 1989.
I usually gauge the gears by a 600-650 ft strip I have in my yard. If I can't get up to 5th gear in that distance, the gears are too tall. If I can rev out 5th too much, they're too low. Therefore, the shape of my land determines what gears I like best, lol.
You'll never get anywhere near the power of a 450 without a turbo. The best thing the 230 has going for it is the light weight.
For tires, I liked the kenda klaw xc's when my swingarm was shorter. They would break loose easy and slide. Now I think the best tire for me would probably be the Fast Trekker from Titan (either that or the Klaw with every other jug cut out). The Fast Trekkers aren't made anymore. Look at Malhombre's pics to see what they look like (although he has them mounted backwards in the pics). http://forums.atvconnection.com/Photos.cfm?ID=766 Btw, he also has 13/39 gears.
Front tires probably don't matter what kind they are. Its the diameter that's important. I like 23's because of all the big rocks on the trail. The 23's are a bit balloony and soak up the bumps and roll over large rocks easy. Also, having 23's in front and 20's in back angles the quad down so its low in back and tall in front. This is nice for going down hill fast. For me, the choice is simple.... 23's on front, 20's in back. No question about it. So, I kept the same brand and went with Kenda xc's on front too. The razr blade thingy on the front tires probably will steer better than the kenda's knobby, but it won't stop as well. The ***** grab dirt better than a slick ridge down the center of the tire. I steer good enough, stopping is what's more important to me. I'll probably cut every other lug out of my rear tires and that should give me the traction I need... Either that or I'll just thorw more even dirt around. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Its a tough call on gears. You have to just play around and see which one you like overall. The 12/41 is nice for popping wheelies and monster torque, but the 13/39 is good for getting the back wheels to hook up and keep the front end down while drag racing. For trail riding, the 12/41 will leave you shifting gears a lot. With the 13/39 you can stay in one gear longer, but 4th gear sucks because there is too big of a hump between 3rd and 4th. Suzuki corrected that with the 250S in 1989.
I usually gauge the gears by a 600-650 ft strip I have in my yard. If I can't get up to 5th gear in that distance, the gears are too tall. If I can rev out 5th too much, they're too low. Therefore, the shape of my land determines what gears I like best, lol.
You'll never get anywhere near the power of a 450 without a turbo. The best thing the 230 has going for it is the light weight.
For tires, I liked the kenda klaw xc's when my swingarm was shorter. They would break loose easy and slide. Now I think the best tire for me would probably be the Fast Trekker from Titan (either that or the Klaw with every other jug cut out). The Fast Trekkers aren't made anymore. Look at Malhombre's pics to see what they look like (although he has them mounted backwards in the pics). http://forums.atvconnection.com/Photos.cfm?ID=766 Btw, he also has 13/39 gears.
Front tires probably don't matter what kind they are. Its the diameter that's important. I like 23's because of all the big rocks on the trail. The 23's are a bit balloony and soak up the bumps and roll over large rocks easy. Also, having 23's in front and 20's in back angles the quad down so its low in back and tall in front. This is nice for going down hill fast. For me, the choice is simple.... 23's on front, 20's in back. No question about it. So, I kept the same brand and went with Kenda xc's on front too. The razr blade thingy on the front tires probably will steer better than the kenda's knobby, but it won't stop as well. The ***** grab dirt better than a slick ridge down the center of the tire. I steer good enough, stopping is what's more important to me. I'll probably cut every other lug out of my rear tires and that should give me the traction I need... Either that or I'll just thorw more even dirt around. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
#4366
12-01-2008, 07:24 PM
#4367
12-01-2008, 10:55 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
Randy,
Thanks for all the info. You are the well! Gonna be a great christmas for mmzuki. In the last few days have picked up ITP wheels, ITP Holeshots ( 20-11-8 ), Brand new LT250S jug, ( more cooling fins than a sleeve in a 230 jug for my 70mm piston ), swinger to lengthen & rebuild the bearing tube, and last but not least--- advertised as very good LT250S upper & lower a-arms. All I need now is to figure out wether to 28 or 30 the carb and maybe find a decent crank for Vince to finesse. Oh, and some shocks. I need to find the thread on your shock suggestions. Sorry but I couldn't contain my excitment.
Thanks for all the info. You are the well! Gonna be a great christmas for mmzuki. In the last few days have picked up ITP wheels, ITP Holeshots ( 20-11-8 ), Brand new LT250S jug, ( more cooling fins than a sleeve in a 230 jug for my 70mm piston ), swinger to lengthen & rebuild the bearing tube, and last but not least--- advertised as very good LT250S upper & lower a-arms. All I need now is to figure out wether to 28 or 30 the carb and maybe find a decent crank for Vince to finesse. Oh, and some shocks. I need to find the thread on your shock suggestions. Sorry but I couldn't contain my excitment.
#4369
12-01-2008, 11:22 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: MMZUKI
sorry, 1 last thing. You extended the front of your swinger. Didn't Big MC extend the rear of his? Any thoughts? Advantages?</end quote></div>
BigMc extended the rear section of his because the guys at Works said they could give him a shock that would take all the extra leverage his design would dish out. I didn't want to shell out for works shocks, and I had to put in a new tube anyway, so I figured why cut twice when once is enough? The shock bottom mount is the only issue.
I'm using the 250S stock rear shock set on its softest setting and angled down as much as I could get it and still fit in the frame without hitting anything. I had to change the top mount location too in order to get the seat height I was after (something like 29-30 inches). Its soft, but supportive enough to hold up a 250lb man bouncing on the grab bar without bottoming. As a matter of fact, he can also push down on the ceiling of the garage while standing on it and bend the grab bar before the shock will ever bottom. I've never seen it bottom and I doubt anyone ever could unless they weigh 500lbs and jump off a house or something.
Another side note about the longer s-arm. The chain doesn't get tight as you apply weight to the grab bar anymore like it did with the shorter arm. Some incidental geometrical change I must have unknowingly made. I like it though.
sorry, 1 last thing. You extended the front of your swinger. Didn't Big MC extend the rear of his? Any thoughts? Advantages?</end quote></div>
BigMc extended the rear section of his because the guys at Works said they could give him a shock that would take all the extra leverage his design would dish out. I didn't want to shell out for works shocks, and I had to put in a new tube anyway, so I figured why cut twice when once is enough? The shock bottom mount is the only issue.
I'm using the 250S stock rear shock set on its softest setting and angled down as much as I could get it and still fit in the frame without hitting anything. I had to change the top mount location too in order to get the seat height I was after (something like 29-30 inches). Its soft, but supportive enough to hold up a 250lb man bouncing on the grab bar without bottoming. As a matter of fact, he can also push down on the ceiling of the garage while standing on it and bend the grab bar before the shock will ever bottom. I've never seen it bottom and I doubt anyone ever could unless they weigh 500lbs and jump off a house or something.
Another side note about the longer s-arm. The chain doesn't get tight as you apply weight to the grab bar anymore like it did with the shorter arm. Some incidental geometrical change I must have unknowingly made. I like it though.
#4370
12-01-2008, 11:41 PM
85 to 88 Suzuki LT230S Quadsport help.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: MMZUKI
Randy,
Thanks for all the info. You are the well! Gonna be a great christmas for mmzuki. In the last few days have picked up ITP wheels, ITP Holeshots ( 20-11-8 ), Brand new LT250S jug, ( more cooling fins than a sleeve in a 230 jug for my 70mm piston ), swinger to lengthen & rebuild the bearing tube, and last but not least--- advertised as very good LT250S upper & lower a-arms. All I need now is to figure out wether to 28 or 30 the carb and maybe find a decent crank for Vince to finesse. Oh, and some shocks. I need to find the thread on your shock suggestions. Sorry but I couldn't contain my excitment.</end quote></div>
Oh boy.... What to do now? The jug is taller for the 250 (that's the reason it has more fins) because the rod is longer on the 250. So, that means on the 230 you'll have WAY less compression unless you get a longer rod. You'll also need the 250 timing chain. Why don't you get the whole 250 engine? There are many pluses to it. Better 4th gear ratio, extra clutch disk, better port geometry, stronger rod, etc. You can put your flywheel from your 230 in it to get the more advanced timing (a little trick I learned by comparing the two wheels [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] ). Then you'll be in the same boat as me.... A 250 with a 260 kit with no use for it, lol. But you can get a Arias 10.5:1 piston for the 250 that's for a 69.5mm bore (very close to 260 and more compression than wiseco). It think they cost about $50 on ebay. I got one and threw it on the shelf for later.... Right next to my 260 kit and extra 71mm piston. ($550 sitting there doing nothing). Oh well.... live n learn. I'm sure I could always sell the kit in the future. The older it gets, the more valuable it is I'm sure.
Get the 250 shocks. Hands down. Best shocks I've seen (except maybe the works shocks, but I haven't seen those yet). But for the price, you can beat them.
See if you can guess which is the 250:
I wont have much of an answer for you about the carb for a while.... Possibly until spring. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]
Randy,
Thanks for all the info. You are the well! Gonna be a great christmas for mmzuki. In the last few days have picked up ITP wheels, ITP Holeshots ( 20-11-8 ), Brand new LT250S jug, ( more cooling fins than a sleeve in a 230 jug for my 70mm piston ), swinger to lengthen & rebuild the bearing tube, and last but not least--- advertised as very good LT250S upper & lower a-arms. All I need now is to figure out wether to 28 or 30 the carb and maybe find a decent crank for Vince to finesse. Oh, and some shocks. I need to find the thread on your shock suggestions. Sorry but I couldn't contain my excitment.</end quote></div>
Oh boy.... What to do now? The jug is taller for the 250 (that's the reason it has more fins) because the rod is longer on the 250. So, that means on the 230 you'll have WAY less compression unless you get a longer rod. You'll also need the 250 timing chain. Why don't you get the whole 250 engine? There are many pluses to it. Better 4th gear ratio, extra clutch disk, better port geometry, stronger rod, etc. You can put your flywheel from your 230 in it to get the more advanced timing (a little trick I learned by comparing the two wheels [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] ). Then you'll be in the same boat as me.... A 250 with a 260 kit with no use for it, lol. But you can get a Arias 10.5:1 piston for the 250 that's for a 69.5mm bore (very close to 260 and more compression than wiseco). It think they cost about $50 on ebay. I got one and threw it on the shelf for later.... Right next to my 260 kit and extra 71mm piston. ($550 sitting there doing nothing). Oh well.... live n learn. I'm sure I could always sell the kit in the future. The older it gets, the more valuable it is I'm sure.
Get the 250 shocks. Hands down. Best shocks I've seen (except maybe the works shocks, but I haven't seen those yet). But for the price, you can beat them.
See if you can guess which is the 250:
I wont have much of an answer for you about the carb for a while.... Possibly until spring. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]